Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

Rick Sebak: I like to say to students who want to get into this, that one of the things I’ve learned really hard is that every interview is an exchange of energy. And what you put out, you’re gonna get back. You know, it is definitely this exchange. And I said, if you watch the nightly news, you can always tell if the reporter is interested in this or not, just by the energy of the response.

Announcer: This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden, a podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how Masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment.

Here now is your host, Steve Cuden. 

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, the highly popular documentary filmmaker Rick Sebak, is a native Pittsburgher who’s worked at Pittsburgh’s PBS station WQED since 1987. Rick’s created dozens of local TV documentaries known collectively as the Pittsburgh History Series, including ‘Kennywood Memories,’ ‘What Makes Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh,’ and ‘Right Beside the River,’ as well as many more.

He’s also produced 15 national programs for PBS, including A Hotdog Program, A Flea Market Documentary, and A Few Good Pie Places. I’ve seen a number of Rick’s documentaries and have always been delighted by the way they’re put together, and especially by the uplifting, wonderfully human stories. Rick’s work delivers every time Rick has been honored with several regional Emmy awards and two national Emmy nominations.

One Pittsburgh bar named a drink after him in 2018. Pittsburgh Magazine named Rick one of the 50 greatest Pittsburghers of all time. There’s even a street name for him in Pittsburgh’s Somerset at Frick Park Neighborhood. So for all those reasons and many more, I am deeply honored to have the extraordinary filmmaker, one of Pittsburgh’s absolute favorites, Rick Sebak bjoin me today. Rick, welcome to StoryBeat. 

Rick Sebak: Thank you Steve very much. And that’s enough. 

Steve Cuden: That’s enough of that. So, let’s go back in time a little bit. I’m gonna ask you a question. I know you’ve asked more than once in your career. Okay. When did you first get interested in this thing called show business filmmaking, documentaries?

When did this start for you? 

Rick Sebak: Uh, probably at different times. Um, growing up, my mom was one of the founding members of Stage 62, the community theater group at that point in Bethel Park. They’re now in Carnegie, Pennsylvania. But, uh, she helped found that, and we of course, you know, tagged along. I ran the hat check service.

I remember it, many productions, uh, at Bethel Park Junior High, which isn’t there anymore. And, uh, that sort of got me interested in this whole world of theater and everything. Um. I was very lucky in high school we had, uh, a group of kids that were all interested and we had a great teacher, Paul Nik, who started a theater group there at Bethel Park High School called Theater 400.

It was in room 400. And, uh, we did some amazing things in high school as a group of kids who were just all interested in this. Um, so I sort of took that with me. When I went away to school, I went to the University of North Carolina, chapel Hill. I, I don’t know why, but I always thought I’d be a double major in English and maybe theater, and I think that’s what I started as.

But, 

Steve Cuden: well, the English shows up in your work, uh, brilliantly because you, the way that you write and the way that you present is, is wonderfully drawn. Like as if we’re listening to a book. 

Rick Sebak: Thank you. No, I, and you know, as a theater student, the first semester I think at Chapel Hill, I had to be talent for, uh, a Saturday morning project that was done by, uh, students in the television department.

Um, we would go to Raleigh, North Carolina, not far from Chapel Hill and be newscasters or people in a little dramatic production or whatever. We were just sort of fodder for the television students, and I thought the guy that was teaching that Paul Nichol was just great. Mm-hmm. I said, I wanna take classes with him.

And they said, well, in order to take his class, you have to be a major in television or in the department, which is now called Communications. But then it was called R-T-V-M-P Radio Television Motion Pictures. Okay. So I switched from being a double major in English and Theater to English and R-T-V-M-P, and that sort of got me thinking about television and I don’t know why.

I think for my initial things I, it was the beginning of Sesame Street in the early seventies and I thought I could get into children’s television and. Well, you grew up here in Pittsburgh, so you must have known about Mr. Rogers at that point. I did know about Mr. Rogers, but I’m sort of not the right age to hit any of Fred’s milestones head on.

Right. What I remembered was Josie Care, who was his partner? I remember Josie Carey, Josie Care, and Fred Rogers produced the first program here at WQED and that was called Children’s Corner, and they took it to NBC for a while. Um, it was huge hit there. They won all kinds of national awards in the fifties.

And, uh, while I was at school and I sort of made known this interest in television, um, my mother saw an article in the Pittsburgh Press that’s not there anymore. And, uh, 

Steve Cuden: indeed 

Rick Sebak: it was just one line that said Josie Carey is doing a children’s soap opera in South Carolina. And my mother sort of said, Hey, you should send her a letter.

So I did. I typed her a letter and, you know, explained, uh, that I remembered her from television, uh, in Pittsburgh. And, uh. So she responded and said, why don’t you come down on your spring break? We’d like to meet you. And that’s sort of what got me into public television. She was doing a children’s, uh, program called We, W-H-E-E-E, exclamation Point.

And there was a children’s soap opera as part of that, which was brilliant, called Bertha Beatles, boarding house for bugs, Bertha Beetles boarding house for bugs. It was, it was said in a, in a big like tomato soup can, um, and Bertha Beetle ran a boarding house for bugs. And it was the day-to-day true life story of, you know, a lonely little lady bug and how she manages a, uh, and the thing was, when you saw it on television, you, you thought they were all bug sized.

And then I remember when I got to the studio, and I mean, all these things were pretty big because they had to have puppets and people manipulating them and everything, even though you perceived it as very small, it was big. And that was, uh, just a joy. Um, and I worked with Josie for the summer and, uh. She said, you know, just stay with us.

And I, I had already set up to go do my junior year abroad in France, and it just seemed to be too much to give up at that point. So I went away to France for a year, and then she had me back when I came back. And so I kept up a relationship with South Carolina ETV. When I graduated from college, something came up.

I was desperately looking for a full-time job, and they contacted me and said, Hey, we need a production assistant on a film we’re making about energy conservation. And I went and, uh, I stayed 11 years. 

Steve Cuden: So that was your first taste of documentary filmmaking then 

Rick Sebak: in, in my post-college career, I’ve only had two jobs, both in public television for 11 years at South Carolina etv.

Mm-hmm. ETV means educational television. And then, uh, I’ve been here at WQED now for 37 years. 

Steve Cuden: Is that all 

Rick Sebak: coming up on 38? 

Steve Cuden: I think that’s just extraordinary. What is it about WQED that’s special? Why have you stayed there all this time? 

Rick Sebak: Uh, because I still love what I get to do. Mm-hmm. I love the fact that I get to, you know, celebrate things and uh, uh, learn about things.

I say the thing that I love most about Pittsburgh, I think, is that it’s perpetually surprising. And I think a lot of that has to do with history. I think as the 19th century became the 20th century, we were a world capital. The richest men in the world lived here. Oil is first pumped from the ground in Titusville, you know, a hundred miles north of here.

That’s pretty amazing when you think about it. But, you know, aluminum is first made, uh, in a, uh, usable quantity at a usable price here in Pittsburgh. And then of course there’s steel and glass and all these things. And you know, I can remember finding out too, that a really first business is fur fur. Fort Pitt.

It was fur trade. That’s what, you know, everybody was into at the time. And, uh, it was really, you know, one of our very first, if not the first moneymaking enterprise here in Pittsburgh. 

Steve Cuden: And it, he, it helps, I assume that we’re a very much a melting pot from all over the world. 

Rick Sebak: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and, and I think still, uh, and that’s, you know, a beauty of all of this.

Uh, you know, I think, yeah, we are reminded a lot that we are all immigrants. That’s true. My name is Siba, uh, which is Slovak, but my father’s mother was German and my mother was all Irish. So, and sort of Heinz 57, uh, you know. I think many of us are, 

Steve Cuden: you’re a bit of a Pittsburgh mutt. Like the rest of us.

Rick Sebak: Exactly. 

Steve Cuden: So you generally build your stories not only around locations or you know, uh, businesses that are of interest, but you build them around the various folks that work in it, because that’s what’s most interesting is the people. And rarely do you focus on anyone who is well-known or a celebrity. I loved your episode on Mr.

Rogers. I thought that was fantastic. But you mostly it’s on common people, the everyday people. What led you to focus on that world rather than to go after celebrities or more folks? 

Rick Sebak: Well, I, I think part of it is just that, um, you know, it’s nice to surprise people just as I like being surprised. Um, and you know, people who are on TV a lot get used to it.

And I always think there’s a freshness and a, you know, unexpected quality that comes from talking to people that aren’t on TV all the time. Mm-hmm. And I did not set out with that goal, but I realize now that if you look at all of my programs, local and national, they are celebrations of small family owned businesses.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. For sure. 

Rick Sebak: Part of that is just the family and, uh, you know, people who are in it. And when a family owned business survives a generation, it’s really an incredible feat. And, you know, two or three generations is amazing, 

Steve Cuden: that’s for sure. 

Rick Sebak: So we, and we love to celebrate that 

Steve Cuden: most businesses don’t survive a few years, let alone generations.

Right, 

Rick Sebak: exactly. 

Steve Cuden: So what then attracted you to documentaries in the first place? Was it working at S-E-E-T-V? Was that what brought you to, to like this form and, and to go after it? 

Rick Sebak: Yeah, probably. Um, I mean, I remember there was one documentary that I saw about food in New Orleans that was on public television, and I thought like, wow, I would love to do stuff like that.

Um, my actual path, I, I started as a writer at South Carolina ETV writing scripts, and we served as a sort of a advertising agency for state agencies. Uh, the public television system in South Carolina is a state agency, and we worked, you know, with the government and, uh, at the same time because of a girl I knew in college who started to work for double day.

I got on double day. Publishing houses, reviewers list. I’d done a lot of writing for the daily Tar Hill in, uh, chapel Hill. And uh, she called me and said, I’m supposed to get new people on the reviewers list. Can I put your name down? I said, sure. And I would get a big box of books every week, uh, from Doubleday.

And then I thought I should be doing something with these. And I know that they had a book review page in the Sunday paper there in Columbia, South Carolina. And I called the editor and I said, uh, I’d like, I did some book reviews for the, uh, daily Tar Hill in Chapel Hill. He said, why don’t you come by and I’d like to meet you?

And I went by and he was a great guy. And he said, you know, take three books from my shelf. Bring me one review. You keep to keep three books and then, you know, if I publish your review, I’ll give you 20 bucks more. And that just became a regular thing. And that led to someone at my station saying to me, uh, Barrell Daker was her name and she was, she produced the arts program.

And she said, well, why don’t you come on my show and read your book reviews like Jean Shallot does on the Today Show, 

Steve Cuden: right? 

Rick Sebak: And I said, oh, that’s kind of interesting. It’s not a lot of work ’cause I’ve already done the work. And so we started that and I just did it for, I’m gonna say maybe a month or two before the guy that had the nightly show called Carolina Journal, said, I like those things you do for Barrel.

Why don’t you come on my show, you’ll get a bigger audience. And so, uh, Tom Fowler convinced me to make the jump from Arts the thing to Carolina Journal and, uh. Then I think I did one or two reviews there, and he said, you ride your bike to work every day. Why don’t you do a story about riding your bike to work?

And I don’t think I’d never did another review. I started doing these little mini documentaries and that, that sort of convinced me that this is a world I really loved. 

Steve Cuden: Do you think of yourself as primarily a writer then? 

Rick Sebak: That’s a good question. 

Steve Cuden: I don’t know. Uh, because you are, you’re writing these documentaries in a way.

They’re visual clearly, and there’s audio clearly, but you also are narrating in large parts of them as a sort of a, sort of the outside narrator watching what’s going on to the chorus that you’re focusing on. Uh, it feels to me like you are actually in, in your Heart of hearts, a writer who is creating stories around the real world.

Rick Sebak: I like that. And, you know, uh, it’s kind of flattering. I do try to be careful about, you know, when do I interrupt the flow of the story Exactly. I, I’ve always loved the fact that I think in traditional documentaries, there isn’t always a narrator. Sometimes you can do it without a narrator. And I think that I have, I, I used to call that the nanuk of the North, uh, syndrome, because there’s no narrator.

You just see what’s going on and just for the sake of time, you can often make it go faster if you add a little narration. 

Steve Cuden: Okay. So explain for the listeners what that means, that you would add a little narration that helps the story move quickly. 

Rick Sebak: Right. Because when you interview people, sometimes they give you too much material.

Mm-hmm. And usually that’s, you know, we, we use a very small point. In fact, I always try to tell people in an interview. What you will say when you see this is that’s all he used. We, we have more material than we can possibly use. And so sometimes I will condense or just try to jump over a bit of history, uh, without going into all the details and all of that.

Although I, I’m always fascinated, you know, to find out things so 

Steve Cuden: well, that’s clearly evident in your work is that you are fascinated by what people do and who they are. Um, and if that was not a sincere part of who you are, and I, you and I have never met, so I don’t really know you other than from your work, but it’s evident you couldn’t do, I don’t think what you do without being sincerely interested in humans is, is that accurate?

Rick Sebak: That’s, yep. I think that’s a basic, 

Steve Cuden: but, but I think there are a lot of people in show business or in movie making or in documentary filmmaking that really aren’t, that keenly interested in people. They’re interested in subjects of one kind or another. 

Rick Sebak: Uh, that’s true. And, and, and, and also, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m so aware that social media has made unscreen narrator’s presence so much more common.

And I don’t know that it’s always a good thing. I, I’m rarely in my shows. Occasionally I’ll do an intro or something like that, but as when it comes to the actual story, you usually don’t see me, 

Steve Cuden: but we hear you and your presence, you have an extraordinary, very memorable delivery. And all you have to do is turn your TV on or your computer and search YouTube and look for Rick C back, and I don’t have to see you at all.

I know it’s you, you have a distinct voice. 

Rick Sebak: Um, yeah, but I don’t think it’s an announcer voice. I think it’s, it’s not an 

Steve Cuden: announcer. No, it’s very folksy. You’re a folksy narrator, which is, uh, very warm and welcoming. 

Rick Sebak: I always remember, uh, back when Jerry’s used records was in Oakland. Uh, here in Pittsburgh. I did a story, I think for things that aren’t there anymore.

Mostly to talk to those guys who hung out in Oakland and grew up in Oakland to talk to them about Forbes Field. But, uh, there was Dewey Gural and he worked there at Jerry’s used records, and I interviewed him as well. And after the show aired, he said that his, uh, he watched it with his grandmother and she said, who is this guy that’s talking?

It sounds like he knows me. And I said, that’s the nicest compliment I could put. That’s, that’s beautiful 

Steve Cuden: because you’ve, it does, you feel like you’re just the guy who lives next door. It doesn’t feel like you’re above the listener. And that’s, I think, really what’s makes the hallmark of your, your shows.

Did you arrive at that? Is that just you, or did you actually think about how you were doing that? 

Rick Sebak: No, I don’t think it’s, it’s, it’s a planned or, uh, you know, calculated thing at all. It’s just, uh, seems to be, uh, I I the best way to tell a story. I think that’s what I’m trying, always trying to find. And I mean, even to this day, we’ve been working on a story right now about, uh, the bottle Rocket Social Hall in the neighborhood of Allentown here in Pittsburgh.

Sure. The neighborhood. I said, that’s the way I begin. I was saying this is confusing. There’s a, there’s a city in Eastern Pennsylvania called Allentown, but there’s also a neighborhood, uh, above the liberty tubes called Allentown, spelled exactly the same way. And, you know, I have to listen to all the interviews that we do, and I say it’s like a jigsaw puzzle.

How do I put it all, how do I put all these pieces together, you know, let people talk as much as I can without me interrupting or, but I also like the style of. CBS Sunday morning and uh, also 60 minutes where, you know, you don’t always see a, a lower third key that tells the person’s name and all of that.

I try to introduce everybody. So in that way, you know, I’m a little bit of a, uh, a narrator who talks a little bit too much just to get all those names in and to introduce all the people. So I try to, 

Steve Cuden: but it never feels too much. It always feels just right. Well, good, thank you. So I, you know, one of the things that I noted, and I think it’s fascinating because I have the same issue here with just doing story beat, which is you have had to pronounce the names of hundreds and hundreds of people and different places, and many of Pittsburgh’s neighborhoods, people and so on are ethnic and they have odd pronunciations.

How do you get the pronunciations right and so clearly do you practice? 

Rick Sebak: Sometimes, uh, sometimes it’s an extra phone call. That’s funny. I always remember. The, uh, I did a couple of things. Uh, I don’t, I’m trying to think, is it, I don’t know if it’s ever in a, in a show, but at some point I told the story of Charles Dickens coming to Pittsburgh.

I wanna say it’s 1842 or 1843. Charles Dickens comes to Pittsburgh on a, an American tour with his wife. They got on a steamboat here in Pittsburgh, and it was really the reason why he came to America. He had sort of been taken by a scam about the town of C-A-I-R-O Illinois. And I said, well, you know. Is it Kro Chiro?

How do they say it? And I remember like, we’re gonna have to figure this out. And so I called, I looked it up, I looked up the, the number for, you know, Kro Chiro City Hall. And the woman answered the phone, said Kero. And I said, thank you. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I, I do want to pronounce things correctly. And actually I’m always surprised at some of the things I see online where people are doing stories about Pittsburgh.

I saw one today where the guy could not pronounce Carnegie the way we pronounce Carnegie, right? Called a Carnegie. And you know, we don’t say Carnegie here. We say Carnegie. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s because everybody knows Carnegie Hall. In New York. 

Rick Sebak: New York, but here we say Carnegie. 

Steve Cuden: Yes, 

Rick Sebak: absolutely. And apparently that’s the way he said it.

And so, you know, I always think that’s interesting, but often you’ll see people that come to town say Primantis as well, instead of primantis the way we say it here in Pittsburgh. And I think that’s always important to try and get it the way people there say it. 

Steve Cuden: Uh, well, and that’s what, that’s what I’m was curious about is you actually work at that.

It doesn’t come naturally, does it? 

Rick Sebak: No, no it doesn’t at all. And uh, you know, actually there was one just recently I remember, and I’m not gonna remember the name of the town, but it didn’t even look like what you were trying to say. If I was doing a thing for the engineer society. Here in Pittsburgh. And, uh, there had been some work on a river, and I, I thought I pronounced the river correctly, but I wasn’t even close.

So, uh, you know, 

Steve Cuden: and then you, that then becomes again, a, a, a part and parcel of what you do, which is to get not just the story right, but the people. Right. And that’s what makes it so fascinating is that the people are the stars of your show. And like I said earlier, almost none of them are famous in any way, shape, or form, but they’re your stars.

And that’s what makes it so fascinating combined with these very interesting neighborhoods and family relations. Let’s talk for a moment about actually what you do as a director, producer, writer, et cetera. What makes a documentary a documentary as opposed to a narratively structured fiction work? 

Rick Sebak: Uh, truth, I don’t truth, you know?

Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m never making things up. Um, I’m just, uh, I mean, I guess it’s a kind of reporting, but, uh, just paying attention to the facts and trying to get everything correct. Um, you know, I, I always amazed by magazines and stuff that have fact checkers. Uh, we don’t have a fact checker here. Uh, I have to rely on myself to do that and, but I’m, I’m trying to be very careful.

Steve Cuden: Well, but you have control over the editorial process, I assume, right? And, and so you could, if you chose to, and I don’t think you do, but you could choose to make things look differently than they are. 

Rick Sebak: Uh, maybe, yeah. 

Steve Cuden: You could slant stories in ways that would be different than what you had actually shot just by the way you cut them.

But that’s not the impression that I get off of what you do. You’re trying to present some kind of centered truth about what it is you’re, you’re focused on. 

Rick Sebak: Exactly right. And sometimes people will ask me like, you know, you must have lots of al takes and I, you know, like funny things that people said and stuff and I said, if we ever get that, we try to include it.

You know, we don’t have a, a great storehouse of funny things that people said. We try to include them, uh, try to make room somehow that we can hear the funny comment or the, uh, misunderstood question or whatever. 

Steve Cuden: Well, the, the world or in, in most cases Pittsburgh is your oyster. And so you can pick from an infinite variety of places and stories In a city like ours, are there special places you turn, turn to for ideas?

No, uh, no, 

Rick Sebak: no. I think it’s just a, it’s sort of a gut thing, just trusting my own instincts. What do I like? Uh, you know, what, what do I think could make a story? And, you know, uh, there are no rules. It could, it could be a person who interests me or it could be a place, you know, a business, uh, whatever it, there.

I, i, I, it’s not easy to say how we decide what we’re gonna do next. 

Steve Cuden: It’s always uniquely different for every, every project, isn’t it? 

Rick Sebak: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And it’s, uh, you know, I try to trust myself and see what happens. Uh, and I’ve been very lucky. 

Steve Cuden: You have, uh, very common man tastes, and that’s what it, that’s what shows up, I think.

Rick Sebak: Could be, could be. Yeah. You know, I always, I remember when. For PBS when we did a national show, we always do two at once to take advantage of the travel. And, uh, if you have two different topics, you can, you know, find a city that has this and this. And so, like, when we did a hotdog program, we did great old amusement parks at the same time.

I can remember the crew, uh, the traveled with me, they said, no one’s ever gonna watch this hotdog program. Everyone will watch a great old amusement parks program. Um, it turned out to be the other way around, but, you know, it was just expectations. And, but I, I knew how much I loved hot dogs and, uh, let it go at that.

Steve Cuden: So once you have decided on an idea, you have decided we’re gonna do a show about hotdogs and people are telling you, no, that’s not gonna work. What, as a director, what are the first steps you do? Is it research? Is it figuring your travel plans? Is it gathering equipment? What are the things that a director does in a documentary?

Rick Sebak: Well, it’s funny, I I never take the title director. I’m, I’m a producer. Um, usually the director credit goes to my camera person. Okay, good. Uh, because I don’t touch the camera. I mean, rarely do I touch the camera. It’s, it’s very much a collaborative thing. And that’s one of the things I love about it, is that there’s someone else capturing things.

And then often there’s a third person, the editor, who is not connected to what we experienced, just looking at what exists in terms of the record we created on video and, uh, how it might go together. So I, it, it’s, it’s a weird process. Um, but I like it very much and I like the fact that there are different people involved.

Steve Cuden: Well, so that’s what I’m interested in is the weird process. What, where do you start? Do you start to, do you get books? Do you go online? Where do you start? 

Rick Sebak: Um, yes to all those things. Um, yes, I, I love the research part of it, and it’s changed over the years. Um, obviously, uh, the internet came along and made, uh, some forms of research much, much easier.

I, I remember that, uh, when we did a hotdog program. There were various search engines. Google hadn’t arrived yet to take over. And I worked with a woman named Nancy Jean Coates, who we sort of competed. She was my associate producer and we competed to see where we could find hotdog places that might be potentials.

And, uh, I remember her glee at saying, she said, I found a guy that has a website, which was rare at the time. He had a website for his push cart selling hot dogs in Alaska. At what year was this? Um, it would’ve been 97. And she was just so thrilled. And I said, you know, and then our finance guys, the, the grants that we would get from PBS were reimbursement grants.

You had to spend the money to get the money. And he came and said, uh, you guys haven’t spent enough money yet. You need to do another shoot. And it was winter time and. I said, oh, well maybe we can go to Florida. Maybe we could go to New Orleans. Uh, because, uh, uh, there’s that novel about the guy that pushes a big hot dog cart.

Um, anyway, uh, she said, what about the guy in, in Anchorage? And I said, he’s not gonna sell hot dogs in the winter. And she said, just let me send him an email. And so she sent him an email and he said, I sell hot dogs one day, which is the day of the Iditarod dog sled race. And I just said, oh my God, that is so perfect.

Hot dogs, cold dogs, you know? And so, uh, that became our, our story and it was just excellent. Um, totally not planned and or anything. And one of our questions is how, why do you have a website for your push cart? And the answer was, my roommate makes websites and he wanted to have, uh, this for his, you know, portfolio.

And so, uh, it was just our luck to stumble on this guy that had a push a website for his push cart in Anchorage. 

Steve Cuden: But this is almost 30 years ago and there weren’t that many websites Today. Everybody has a website, 

Rick Sebak: right? And, uh, thank goodness that Nancy Jean founded on a, you know, 

Steve Cuden: search engine. So you get an idea, but you may not have an end goal as to what you think the product will be.

Rick Sebak: Uh, a TV program. 

Steve Cuden: Well, it’s a, it’s a program, but you don’t know you’re, you can’t script it out. You can maybe get an idea of where you want to go and who you want to talk to, but you can’t script it in advance. Am I correct? 

Rick Sebak: Oh, right. No, no. It’s, it’s the, the, all the writing comes after we go out and shoot and gather inter, you know, interviews and footage and find what we like and what we don’t like and, uh, all that kind of stuff.

Steve Cuden: And the edit is your final right. 

Rick Sebak: Yes. And you know which part of this process? I don’t know which one I like the most. I love the research. I love going out and shooting and, you know, talking to people and gathering. And I also love the editing. 

Steve Cuden: I, I’m gonna guess like many people who do what you do, who I’ve, I actually have spoken to a number of them.

You would prefer to keep doing these different things because that’s what keeps it fresh. 

Rick Sebak: Yes. I, I think that it’s always, you know, the variety of what I get to do is one of the things that sustains me. It’s, it’s just really, you know, ‘

Steve Cuden: cause when you’re in the field, you’re loving that. And then when you’re back in the edit bay, you’re loving that.

And then when you’re prepping for an newa, you’re loving that. It’s all, you’re constantly rolling in things that keep you o your mind very occupied. 

Rick Sebak: Right. I, I mean, just recently, I, I saw a thing, I think USA today still does those 10 best lists, and they did like 10, the 10 best places to spend Easter. And I wanna say Pittsburgh was number two.

Mm. I thought like, wow, that’s interesting. Sometimes we’re the number one place to live. Exactly. But this was because we were number one in the amount of chocolate and candy stores per capita. I didn’t know that. And I thought, oh, that’s interesting. I’ve, I, you know, I, I re, I did one story about Betsy and Chocolates up in Westview, but I know that there’s lots of others and I thought that could make an interesting show.

Chocolates. And I swear anytime I mentioned it to someone, they said, oh, do you know about this one? And, you know, everybody’s got a favorite that’s in their neighborhood or in their part of the town and stuff like that. And so we’re lucky that way. And, uh, so I, I may try to do that next. 

Steve Cuden: Alright, so I’m gonna ask you a question.

I ask lots of guests and I’m always fascinated by the answers. What for you makes a good story. Good. 

Rick Sebak: Uh, unexpected responses or, or, uh, cleverly stated responses. I just love that. And, uh, I can think of the thing that we’re working on now about this bar up in Allentown, a Bottle Rocket, uh, Chris Cope, and the guy that owns it said it’s kind of like, uh, a dive bar as if it were run by the Muppets.

And I just thought like, wow, that is, that is just great. A dive bar run by the Muppets that, you know, that’s their sort of philosophy and that’s what makes, and that them so lovable. Uh, so that, that’s kind of cool. 

Steve Cuden: How often do you get deeply into it? You’ve got your footage, you’re starting to work on it, and you find it’s not at all what you thought it was.

It’s something totally different. Does that ever happen? 

Rick Sebak: Occasionally. Uh, I mean, and it depends on whether we’re doing, you know, one story. In a collection of similar stories or whether we’re just doing a standalone story, uh, which we’ve been doing a lot of recently, then I don’t want, you know, there to be any, uh, sort of slips.

I, I, I wanna make sure that be, before we start to edit, we have enough stuff to do it. 

Steve Cuden: What, what would you say is the average amount of footage you need to the length of show that you have? Is there a standard to it? No. 

Rick Sebak: Uh, no. That’s funny. That reminds me the, the first time, uh, I made a documentary in South Carolina, the video equipment, you know, portable video equipment was new.

Uh, and it was all booked. And I asked if we could do a documentary about the state dance of South Carolina, and the head of the production department said, yes, you can do it if you do it on film, which was the older technology. He said, but I want you to keep your ratio. Of footage to fi finished footage at 10 to one.

So, you know, when I came here to QED, they were still doing National Geographic specials here, and I think their ratio was like 500 to one. Wow. You know, ’cause they were a lot of nature photography and that ta that eats up a lot of film and they were soft film, but, so this was a regulation you gave, you know, 10 to one would be your ratio and you know, so you have to be kind of like, uh, succinct in your interviews, uh, and all of that.

And, uh, but my cameraman and I worked out as a, a, a system of he would stop rolling. After we did the first question or two. And then if I heard something that I, we could, we would record the audio for the whole interview. But then I, if I heard something, I would say, you know, let me ask you that question again.

And then that would be a, uh, signal to him to roll. And then we would get the, the response that we wanted to hear again on film as well. So, 

Steve Cuden: but you did that so that the, the, uh, the interviewee didn’t realize that you’d missed it, right? 

Rick Sebak: That, or that we turned the camera off, 

Steve Cuden: or, or you turned the camera.

You 

Rick Sebak: don’t wanna, you don’t wanna dis the, uh, or make the interviewer seem like it’s less than important. 

Steve Cuden: So one of the things that happens in this show for me is, is trying to figure out the best questions to ask. You ask a lot of good questions. I particularly enjoyed the show. What makes Pittsburgh?

Pittsburgh? ’cause that was the main question that you asked everybody. What makes Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh? And then you got all these various answers. How do you come up with your questions? How do you decide what to ask people? 

Rick Sebak: Ooh, uh, I’m not sure. Sort of like, you know, the topic or whatever. I mean, some, a lot of it, and it, it is, you know, if you have to put together a proposal to try and raise some funds that forces you to, you know, come up with a theme like that.

Um, when we were doing, I, I did a series of program called It’s Pittsburgh and a lot of other stuff, and I don’t know why near the beginning of that, I, I just started asking people, well, why do you live here? And then that became its own show. Why do I live in Pittsburgh? And I mean, I thought some of the answers were great.

Um, I always remember one, uh, a woman who was an, uh, professor of engineering, uh, at uh, CMU and, uh, she said, it’s this weird texture, you know, she said, I’ve lived in several cities around the world and you know, here there is such a depth of family and a depth of culture and all of that. She said, it makes it very unusual and a really interesting place to live.

Steve Cuden: Well, you’ll know as well as I do that for a very long time, Pittsburgh was a sort of a joke name. It would get used in, in sitcoms and so on as a joke city because we were a dirty smoggy, uh, rough and tumble place. But over time it’s become this jewel. And that’s what I find fascinating because you can go and look at your old shows and see some of that rough and tumble still there, and you can see the more modern shows and see how much of a gem the city has become.

Rick Sebak: Right? I I, I said, you know, we have a show called things that are still here and many of them are not still here 

Steve Cuden: there, right. But that’s how Pittsburghers describe how to get from one place to the other, is you go down to that corner where that store used to be. And so how are you supposed to find where you’re supposed to go, 

Rick Sebak: where the eyes used to be?

Steve Cuden: One, one thing that I love about your work is, is that you are an empathetic. Interviewer. Do you consciously work toward being empathetic toward the interviewees? 

Rick Sebak: Yeah, probably. ’cause I’m not out to fry anybody. I’m not 60 minutes. I’m not, you know, there to, uh, do any sort of, uh, groundbreaking investigative reporting.

I’m generally there to celebrate and sometimes if I’m asked to speak to a class or something, I, I, I like to say to students who want to get into this, that one of the things I’ve learned really hard is that every interview is an exchange of energy and what you put out, you’re gonna get back. And I’m sort of blessed with a, a face that looks like I’m smiling all the time.

And, uh, that helps. I try to be engaged. I also learned early on, you don’t wanna talk a lot, you wanna stop talking so that you have a clean response. But, uh, you know, it is definitely this exchange. And I said, if you watch the nightly news. You can always tell if the reporter is interested in this or not, just by the energy of the response.

And so I, I try to keep things up. I remember too, uh, I’m gonna mention the hotdog program again. Uh, a guy called me and he said, you know, he said, I, I work in computers. And he said, but I just saw your hotdog program. And he goes, I think I’m gonna quit this and open a hotdog place. These people all look so happy.

What they get to do. And I said, well, I’ll just warn you, they may look happy because I’m happy. And, you know, uh, that’s them responding to my level of happiness that I get to go around the country and talk to people about hotdog places. I, 

Steve Cuden: I think it’s impossible to believe that anyone could spend years and years and years in a hotdog place and always be happy.

Right. 

Rick Sebak: No, it’d be impossible. 

Steve Cuden: Impossible. So we talked earlier about, you know, the insertion of your narrative voice throughout the shows. Do you have a process that you go through to decide, I’m gonna talk here. Is it just simply you’re trying to fill a blank where you need to bridge something, where you need to explain a backstory?

Is that what it is? Is it always based on that? 

Rick Sebak: I think it’s, it’s always a, a degree of necessity, but as I said earlier, I usually work with an editor and I have no problems with the editor saying, I, I don’t think you need to be here. We can just go from this to this. And, uh, I appreciate that. The, the less of me the better.

Yeah. But it’s usually a matter of either introducing a person or just trying to get through a segment a little bit quicker, um, and condensing down some of the stuff we’ve learned. 

Steve Cuden: I kind of think of your voice as the spice that makes the whole work. 

Rick Sebak: Well, that’s very kind of you. But, you know, I, I don’t know that I always think that.

Steve Cuden: Well, what do you think? Do you think, uh, you should get less of you all the time? 

Rick Sebak: Yeah. I mean, I, you know, uh, no, because I do that thing where I introduce people. I, I’m not eliminating myself. But, uh, yeah, I did some things in South Carolina that had no narration and, uh, that was, you know, experimenting. Um, I did a documentary about, uh, correctional officers, prison guards.

Uh, it was a request from, uh, the corrections department because they had a high turnover and they thought the high turnover was the result of people coming to get a job as a prison guard thinking it might be easy. And they wanted to emphasize that, you know, it’s not an easy job. And, uh, I can remember, uh, we were working on it.

We had gone to a couple of different levels of prisons already, and, uh, waking up one morning and I had NPR on and, uh, they said, prison break or Prison riot in South Carolina. And I thought, like, what? And there was, there was, uh, you know, a disturbance in one of the maximum security prisons there in Columbia, South Carolina.

Oh my. And, uh, then we went and talked to those guys and, and you know, you realized, whoa, this is really hard. And, uh, I can remember one of them saying to me, uh, one of the prisoners was hiding him, and he said, I took off my uniform, I put on a t-shirt. And, you know, he said, and I just said, he just said, stay in my cell.

And he said, and I sat there and he said, I looked out the, uh, window and I thought, this is a terrible place to die. 

Announcer: Oh, whoa. 

Steve Cuden: You 

Announcer: know? 

Steve Cuden: Did that make it into the, into your show? 

Rick Sebak: Oh, for sure. 

Steve Cuden: Yeah. That’s, well, that’s, you know, it’s interesting because most of your shows are not that dramatic. 

Rick Sebak: No, they’re not that dramatic.

And also I, uh, that, but the reason I brought that show up was there was no narration. It was just guards talking about how hard the job was, which was our goal. You know, it didn’t matter what their names were. Um, that’s, that’s a way to do it, and it depends on, you know, what you’re trying to do. 

Steve Cuden: Um, but 

Rick Sebak: as I said, there are no rules.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that that makes it also fun for you because you can continually be creative without having to fit into a mold. Uh, I hope so. Yes. But, but in the same light, you then also work for people. Yes. Are you completely independent? Do you self-finance? No, no, no. I, I, I’m, I’m a full-time employee at WQED.

Okay. So my question then is you then have. Let’s call them bosses. You have people above you who say, I assume they say yes or no to various projects, uh, that not every single project you’ve ever offered up as a, as a thought was accepted, that there have been rejections along the way. And when you’re making a project, you also will get, I am gonna assume, again, you correct me if I’m wrong, somebody’s gonna come and give you notes as to what, yes, no, we won’t accept this.

We, we love that more of this. Do you get those kinds of notes? Yeah. 

Rick Sebak: Yeah. Occasionally. I, you know, I, I, because I’ve been doing shorter stories, uh, I don’t, I can’t think of any instances like that recently. But I mean, you know, there have been times, I mean, especially when you turn in a proposal, often there are, you know, changes to be made and all of that.

And, uh, I can remember when we were first started to talk about doing a show about pies with PBS, it started off as, uh, a show about sweet pies, savory pies, and pizza pies. And then, you know, things just sort of changed and the people down there said, yeah, no. Um, and uh, they said, what about pies and cakes?

And I said, well, I love pies, but I’m not that big a cake fan. I said, what about pies and bakeries? And they said, oh, that’s interesting. Let’s see what, and, and that, that came out. That’s what we did. We did a show about a few great pie places and a few good, or a few great bakeries and a few good pie places.

Steve Cuden: Well, I, I, so the question then, from that is, how do you react to notes that you’re given? When somebody gives you a note, do you sit back and take it and then think about it? Or do you have a visceral reaction to notes? How do you deal with note giving and note taking? 

Rick Sebak: It probably depends on who it comes from.

Steve Cuden: Oh. 

Rick Sebak: You know, so, yeah. I mean, 

Steve Cuden: I, I think we all, 

Rick Sebak: you know, 

Steve Cuden: and nobody likes to be told that, that what you’ve presented isn’t good or doesn’t work, or should be totally different. Nobody wants to hear that. Everybody wants to hear. You’re wonderful. Right. Uh, so I ask lots of people who create what happens when they receive notes.

What, what happens for you? Does it change the process? 

Rick Sebak: It just opens other doors? I think I, you know, I can think of an example. I mean, we used to do this here. We, uh, it hasn’t happened in a long time, and I don’t wanna bring it back, but back in the early days here in the late eighties, early nineties at QED, when you finished a project, everyone in the building got to look at it first and criticize it.

Wow. And I sort of hated that. Because I said, you know, I don’t get to talk about what this person’s doing for their job and like how they could do it better. But everyone was given a chance and uh, I remember the, I think probably the first draft of Kenny Wood Memories, it started with Laughing Sal, who I always liked, I don’t know if you know, that’s at, I mean, an early robot animatronic woman, big fat woman who, who laughs When I was a kid she was laughing in the dark and now I think she’s over by the train, although I haven’t been to Kennywood yet this year.

So she may be somewhere else laughing. Sal is her name. And I started with that. And then at this pre-release screening, someone said, it’s called Kennywood Memories. Couldn’t you start with some memories? As opposed to laughing Sal. And I thought, oh yeah, maybe we could. And so we went back and like tried to find some memories that people had and they were really nice.

And now I love that. I mean, I love that that’s how it begins with people talking about Kenny Wood and their memories. 

Steve Cuden: It, and that is what, uh, I love to hear because that’s, that’s what the note process is. And some people instantly knee-jerk react no to any kind of note. But I think it’s important that people accept no.

Oh yeah. And that’s what I was, I’m glad to hear that, that that is something that you’re able to do. I also think probably at this point, 37 years at WQED, they probably think you know what you’re doing. 

Rick Sebak: I’m not sure. 

Steve Cuden: You haven’t earned your stripes yet, Rick. Uh, I don’t know. I am curious about legalities.

Do you ever need clearances when you go out into the field? 

Rick Sebak: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you. How does that 

Steve Cuden: work? 

Rick Sebak: Uh, we have, uh, standard forms, releases, uh, location releases, uh, things that you have to get. Uh, and 

Steve Cuden: you don’t ever pay people out in the world, do you? 

Rick Sebak: No. No. We’ve never paid anybody, I don’t think, you know, if, if they weren’t paid, we’re not gonna do it.

That kind of a thing. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. But they require you to get some form of release so that you have the image in their voice and you can actually exploit it then? 

Rick Sebak: Yes, because I mean, there’s the, the rare chance that someone’s not gonna like the way they look or like what they said and all that kind of stuff.

But if you have a release that says, I mean, and I always say that to people when I ask them to sign the release, this says that, you know, we’ve taken your picture, we’re going to edit it, and we’re not gonna pay you. That’s my standard, you know, shtick as I hand them a page that’s like all legalese. 

Steve Cuden: Do you ever need releases for if you shoot the side of a building and you don’t, you haven’t contacted the owner?

Not if you’re in a public place. If you’re on a, on a sidewalk, 

Rick Sebak: yeah, on a sidewalk, on a, you know, public street. You don’t need to have releases from every building. No. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Alright, so we, we touched on editing several times in the show, but I want to talk to you about editing. ’cause I think that’s really critical.

Uh, how much time does it typically take to make, uh, let’s say an hour long program in the edit bay? Is there an average? 

Rick Sebak: Uh, I’m gonna say, uh, I guess if I, if you want, you know, if I have to respond, I’d say two to three months. 

Steve Cuden: Two to three months for a one hour show. 

Rick Sebak: Yeah. Does that sound like a little or a lot?

Steve Cuden: That sounds like, uh, heavy duty editing to me. 

Rick Sebak: Yeah. Well, I mean, it surprises me editing, you know, because it’s become digital and non-linear and all of that, uh, it goes a little faster than it used to, uh, when you had to build things sequentially. Right. But like when I look back on Kennywood memories, we shot that in the summer of 1988 and it like premiered at the end of October, which was really fast turnaround, I think.

Steve Cuden: Well, you, you know, there’s lot, there are lots of TV shows today where like 60 Minutes, obviously they spend months and months and months putting, uh, 15 minutes segment together. Uh, but my guess is the editorial part of it is a lot more condensed. It’s the prep, it’s the ga gathering guests, et cetera, et cetera.

In your case, you’re going out into the field and shooting what you basically, what you can find that day, right? And so you’re coming back with all this material. So I guess it takes you a long time to get through it all to decide what to use. 

Rick Sebak: I mean, like, you know, a one day shoot, you can probably turn around a lot quicker than an hour long show.

That’s what you’d asked about. Sure. Right. You know? Sure. I would like to say two months, but I, I don’t want to put myself in a box either. Well, 

Steve Cuden: well, no. If it’s two to three months, I think that’s valuable information for the listeners if they, they have an interest in doing what you do. And so it, it’s part of the answer here is it’s not a short term process.

It’s not something you knock out in a couple of days. 

Rick Sebak: No, no. It, it, it usually takes a lot more thought. And, I mean, uh, I know my, my, the cameraman I’m working with right now and have worked for many years with Frank ero, he always wants me to go faster, uh, you know, get through that. A, I build the a roll. I don’t know if you know this terminology.

I, I build the story and the soundbites I want to hear, and I usually add the narration where I think it’s necessary. And then I hand it to an editor. I used to do it with Kevin Conrad, uh, who was my editor here for many years. Uh, he passed away during the pandemic, but, uh. Frank now does that, and I give, you know, Frank has shot with me so he knows better what’s there and what the possibilities are.

But he always thinks I take too long to, you know, weasel together The a roll before he gets to add pictures on top, which is the B roll, 

Steve Cuden: is that stock footage? 

Rick Sebak: No, no. It’s stuff that he shot. Usually it’s, I see. You know, it’s just that it’s not interview I, I, the A roll is usually interview and me Got it.

And then he gets to add all the other pictures. So, and the thing we’re doing now, you know, he has stuff we shot. Up at Bottle Rocket around the bar, you know, this, you know, dive bar run by Muppets. Uh, it’s this, 

Steve Cuden: I have 

Rick Sebak: to 

Steve Cuden: see. It makes me, now, it makes me want to go visit this place. 

Rick Sebak: Oh, it’s great. It’s really great.

It’s excellent. And, but I’ve been going there for, it was the third anniversary when we were there, the night that we were there. And, uh, they’ve been very nice to me. They, they usually show some of my shows once or twice a year. And, uh, but they have world-class comedians. They have, you know, music, uh, acts of all sorts.

And, uh, then they do special events too, like, uh, fake prom night and fake wedding and all that kind of stuff. And they get a nice crowd. And so, uh, you know, I, I was happy to celebrate them some, uh, as they got to their third anniversary. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s real. And, and that’s, I assume part of the joy of what you do is that you get to celebrate people in a much more public way than they ordinarily would get.

Rick Sebak: Exactly, yes. And I, and I enjoy that. 

Steve Cuden: So how important from your perspective, is the understanding of rhythm and timing in making a cut? 

Rick Sebak: Oh, it changes. Uh, uh, it depends on what’s being said. And again, i, I pass it on to Frank and I know he’s gonna shorten a lot of things just ’cause we’ve heard enough. Um, and I usually agree with them.

Steve Cuden: How important do you think it was that you started early on in the theater and understood performance and understood what it was like to do, uh, to be in the public front, I, et cetera, to what you do now? How important do you think all those years ago is still playing out today? 

Rick Sebak: Uh, I haven’t thought about it.

Um, but, you know, probably a lot. I mean, you know, I think that’s, I would think it is, yeah. You know, the stuff you learn as a kid or the stuff that you do when you’re in high school and you know, when you’re sort of free to find things you love. I think that has a big influence. So, yeah. I think there’s probably a lot of that that still exists.

And, uh, 

Steve Cuden: it, it comes out, again, we’ve talked about this several times, but it comes out in the narration. You have a performance ability. 

Rick Sebak: Oh, thank you again. I, you know, um, I often wonder how, how much of it is my parents, you know, my mom who had this urge, you know, with community theater. I know she had never studied theater or anything like that, but my dad was a salesman and I always think that has an influence too.

Interesting. He wanted to talk to people and be a salesman. He sold industrial pipes, valves and fittings. And, uh, you know, I think the combination of those two things, um, my mom was certainly a big reader and I, I always appreciate the fact that she, uh, she would always say, I don’t care what you’re reading, as long as you’re reading.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Rick Sebak: I, I think, you know, I wish a lot more adults had that attitude. Mm-hmm. I don’t care what you’re reading, as long as you’re reading. 

Steve Cuden: I agree. I agree. Well, and obviously you’ve read widely except that, 

Rick Sebak: I don’t know, phones make it harder. You know, I, I spend a lot more time on my phone than I, than I think I used to spend reading more.

Why do you say harder? I wish I read more than I do now. Uh, more like I used to. 

Steve Cuden: Well, how many books would you read at a time? Three or four at a time Back in the day. 

Rick Sebak: I think I have three going right now, uh, you know, in my bedroom. 

Steve Cuden: And I would say that that’s not common. That’s fairly uncommon. My people might read several books a year.

Rick Sebak: Oh, well, I mean, you know, and I’m not reading them fast obviously, ’cause they’re all still, you know, midway. But, you know, I, I’m also a bit of a hoarder and I, I have too many books. Uh, and, you know, it’s just, uh, I, 

Steve Cuden: I I would say Rick, take a number and get in line. I have too many books, too. Well, I’ve been having so much fun.

This is one of my favorite interviews with the, the great Rick Seabeck, who has been, you know, for almost four decades at, uh, WQED, making some of the most marvelous documentaries in the world. And we’re gonna wind the show down a little bit now, and I’m wondering, in all of your many travels and experiences, are you able to share with us a story more than the many that you’ve already told us?

That’s either weird, quirky, offbeat strange, or just plain funny? 

Rick Sebak: Well, it’s, it is, you know, it’s hard. Uh, I thought about when I came to Pittsburgh in 1987, uh, from South Carolina. One of the other producers in South Carolina, Tim Carrier, uh, had just done a documentary about three Frank Lloyd Wright houses in South Carolina.

When I said, Hey, I am gonna take a new job in Pittsburgh. And he goes, oh, let me know when you get settled because I wanna see Falling Water. And the cameraman that he had worked with, Herman Rich said, I want to come too. I wanna see falling water. And so I said, great. And so I was here a month or two. Uh, I just, I was living at my parents’ house and uh, they came up and Tim had contacted Falling Water and they said, oh yes.

And he sent his documentary, I guess on a VHS and, uh, they said, we’d love to have you. Please come. We went and there was like no one else there. It, it was not quite as set up for tourism as it is right now, um, back in 1987. And, you know, we had this great day. Showed us all around, got to go places where you don’t get to go when you’re on the tour and all that.

And then at the end of the day they said, is there anything you haven’t seen that you would like to see? And Tim said, um, I would like to see it at dusk and maybe as the lights come on at night. And they said, oh, no problem. Here are the keys. Oh. And we were all like, what? And they said, when you go out, just put them in the mailbox at the end of the driveway.

Oh, wow. And I just thought like, oh, things are gonna work out great here. So I, I always remember that as being like a, a moment of, uh, good luck. And sometimes people ask me, do you have a re an interview that you remember as being really wonderful? And that always it, it, it was with Wendy King. I don’t know if you, uh, ever listened to Party Line on KDKA.

It was a radio show. My grandmother and my mother were both, you know, frequent listeners. Uh, party Line, I think it was on KDKA every night for like 30 years. And you never heard the callers. It was a call in show, but you never heard the callers. They would just, uh, ed and Wendy King, and usually a third person who changed over the years would help.

And you know, they would say, oh, we have a caller on the line who, you know, one time they said, who wants to know the bird with the largest wingspan? They talked about anything. It was a party lot. And, uh, I, I mentioned that because at, I heard that one night when my mom was listening and I said, mom, we had that today in school.

I know what bird has the largest wingspan, the South American condor. And she said, call. And I thought, you know, I’ll never get through. And she said, just call, try. And I got through right away and, uh, I said, you know, I, I know which bird has the largest wingspan. And uh, Wendy said, there’s a call, a young man on the line who says he knows the, you know, and so she just sort of repeated what I said, south American condor.

I was very proud that I got through, and it was really wonderful. When I came back to Pittsburgh, it had gone off the air in 1970, um, when Ed King passed away, but, uh, Wendy was still here and I, I know I’d heard that she was in Greentree or something like that, and I thought, oh, I’d love to talk to her. And so I called her and I said, you know, could we talk about, I, I had done things that aren’t there anymore and I wanted to do another follow-up show called Stuff That’s Gone.

She said, I don’t really want to talk about it, but we, we liked each other. It was obvious on the phone. And we, you know, we kept talking and, uh, I would call her occasionally and say, you know, have you reconsidered? Would you, would you let me come talk to you and everything? And she said, ah, I don’t think so.

No. You know, she, Ed’s gone and blah, blah, blah. And then one day she called me and she said, you know, I’ve thought about it. I would like to do this if you would consider interviewing me in my attic. And I thought like, whoa, that is spectacular, because that’s where all the boxes of stuff from Party Line are stored.

Wow. She said, we could just sit up there with those boxes. And I said. Absolutely perfect. And in order to get to the attic, you had to go through her closet in her bedroom, which, you know, it just, it was just, you know, you felt like you were really, you know, getting to do something special. And I remember that as just being phenomenal.

But, uh, I think this just the exposure and, you know, the joy of making friends that sometimes last, I think is, is one of the things that just I find fascinating and funny and, you know, you don’t know. And, uh, you know, it’s just, uh, so many different things. I mean, and, but I’m also blessed with the fact that there are weird things in Pittsburgh that I get to show to other people.

I mean, someone said, you know, like, where, where do you wanna take people to come to town? Well, you know, yeah, I do like to take them to the strip, but I really love to take them to see the Ox Ivanka murals in the church in Millvale. Or St. Anthony’s chapel up on Troy Hill. Two places that I learned about when I did Holy Pittsburgh still fascinate me.

Um, that lets you know yes, about the immigrant communities that were here and sort of, uh, maybe the lack of attention that the diocese was paying to some of these smaller churches. So, uh, it’s, it’s constant. I, I, you know, I can’t put any superlatives as to the best or all of that kind of stuff, but I do like that.

And, you know, another thing that I’ve always loved is because kennywood memories is, you know, I say when I die, I think the. Newspaper will say, man, who made Kennywood memories dies, 

Steve Cuden: probably, right? 

Rick Sebak: Because it, it’s the most popular of the local shows, Kennywood Memories, 1988. But I love to meet people from the show.

Uh, sometimes people will say like, you know, I’m in Kennywood memories, and I’ll say like, what, where, why, how do you, you know, if it’s not someone that I remember. Um, and I’ve had several things like that. Uh, my, my friend Kathy Berger, I had known her I think for like. Maybe five to 10 years before she said, you know, I’m in Kennywood memories.

And I said, no. And she said, you know, at one of the places where the game’s being played, towards the end of the show, she’s standing with a, a girlfriend who goes big. I love you, bear. She doesn’t say it, the girlfriend says it, but Kathy’s standing right beside her there. Uh, I remember one time going into the Oyster House downtown, and there’s a little side door I, I don’t even know, it’s too long since I’ve been there, whether the side door still works.

But I’m going in the side door and there’s a guy going in front of me, a young guy, and he goes, yeah, Mr. Seabeck, you know what, uh, I’m in Kennywood memories. I said, oh, really? Yeah. He said, yeah, I’m, uh, I, I’m in, uh, horrendously or Harold’s horrendously horrible haunted Hideaway, which we now call the Old Mill, which was always called the Old Mill.

And I said, yeah. And he goes, uh, I’m one of the canoers. And that it was a, a word I wanted to use Canoodle, you know, which sort of means to make out people sometimes canoodle in the old mill in those boats. And he said, uh. You asked me if I would put my arm or we were sitting behind him with a camera and I said, would you put your arm around?

You know your, your girlfriend? And he goes, sure. He said It was our first date. Oh. I said like, wow. I said, and now you’re married? He goes, no, it was our only date.

So I love stuff like that. Um, you know, you got him to Canoodle on the first date. First date, and I mean, he just put his arm around her, but, you know, uh, he, he thought it was a good idea. Um, but it didn’t work out. 

Steve Cuden: Uh, well, you are clearly not going to run out of ideas for Pittsburgh, that’s for sure.

There’s lots of places still to come. Uh, so last question for you today, Rick. You’ve shared with us a enormous amount of very valuable information and advice throughout this show, but do you have a single solid piece of advice or a tip that you like to give to those who are starting out in the business or maybe they’re in a little bit trying to get to the next level?

Rick Sebak: Yeah, I do. I have a standard bit of advice, which is. Read constantly and write justice constantly. And I just think that, you know, even though it is a visual video world, um, all that stuff is still so important. And I know that when I came here, um, the woman who hired me, Nancy, uh, Lavin, when I started the, the day I started, I, I was given an office and there were 250 tapes in there from, that had been submitted for the job.

And I said, like. How do you do that? How do you go through 250? And she goes, well, the thing is, she goes, the first thing is we look at the cover letter. If there is a grammatical error in the cover letter, we don’t go any further. And I just think people should know that, you know, it does matter. It does matter that you have a subject and a predicate that match and that, you know, there aren’t any grammatical errors in your cover letter.

And you know, I just think that, uh, all of those things are important and as I said, and also just maintaining your energy level enough to get the responses to come back to you with the same intensity that you’re putting them out. So, you know, those are my, that’s what I tell if students, uh, wanna know a little bit about, I would say read.

Write and, uh, learn to ask questions and get it right in your query letters and in in what you’re writing. 

Steve Cuden: I’m so glad that you said that because for years, uh, I have taught screenwriting students that the readers in Hollywood will read to the first mistake and then they’ll ask if this writer couldn’t care enough to get it right, why should I care enough to continue reading?

And so it’s very important that, that people who are trying to get into the business make their work as perfect as possible. 

Rick Sebak: Right. I think you’re absolutely right and, you know, yeah, it’s good advice. 

Steve Cuden: Rick Sebak, this has been a great joy and a lot of fun for me, and I can’t thank you enough for your time, your energy, and especially for your wisdom and for giving us all these great documentaries for all these years.

Thank you so much for doing the show. 

Rick Sebak: All the thanks comes to you because you know this has been a joy and you know, it’s, uh, and you’re a great interviewer. 

Steve Cuden: Well, I, I, now I’m blushing. Thank you very much and I hope you continue with great success. You too. And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat.

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Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden and may all your stories be unforgettable.