Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

Steve Maher: I think music is the most powerful persuader that exists. It really binds people in a way that is beautiful. You know, I know people, you know, say that going to a concert sometimes is like going to church or s having this spiritual experience or, you know, it’s like they’ve been impacted deeply.

Announcer: This is StoryBeat  with Steve Cuden, a podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people ever everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment. Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, Steve Mar is a musician and singer songwriter out of Denver, Colorado. He combines vocals, lyrics and piano into one cohesive pop soul sound style that doesn’t take itself too seriously while also touching upon life experience. Steve’s first solo album, Pathways was recorded in Chicago in 2020 during the pandemic and released in July of 2021. His current project, Night Routine, is a funk pop soul group that is performed throughout Colorado and the Midwest. Steve sings lead vocals and plays keyboards along with co-founder Tomas Har on guitar, Mark Hudson on bass, drummer Josh Nitzel. Please stick around at the end of the show for a real treat. Steve has lent us one of Night Routine songs, Springtime Shine for you to enjoy. So for all those reasons and many more, I’m truly delighted to have the very talented singer songwriter Steve Marr joined me today. Steve, welcome to Story Beat.

Steve Maher: Thank you for having me.  I appreciate it.

Steve Cuden: It’s a great pleasure to have you on the show, believe me. So let’s go back in time a bit. You’ve been writing songs and performing for a little while now. I’m, um, wondering how did all this musical magic began? At what age were you when you first thought about music?

Steve Maher: Well..

Steve Cuden: That’s something interesting. I want to go down that road.

Steve Maher: Yeah. Took me a little bit to get there, right. I was, I grew up in Boston or outside of Boston in a town called Eastern Massachusetts. And I was born with something called persistent hyperlastic primary vitreous, which is a lot of words just that mean I’m blind in my left eye. And so, you know, my dad was a good athlete, right? He, he was a very talented football player. My brother was in a basketball. My sister, you know, was also athletic. So was. I was trying sports as hard as I could, you know, and. But one eye just does not lend itself to athletics. Um, you know, trying baseball and you know, I could never hit the ball right. Justuse, you know, hand, eye coordination, depth perception, all that stuff was coming into play. So eventually I got it where it was s like, hey man, you know, sports aren’t working out. Um, you know, try something new. So I started getting into different things where acting in theater, but also, um, you know, I was in a couple bands, um, growing up and you know, so I started off on drums and then transitioned to keyboards and eventually singing later on. So, you know, juggling.

Steve Cuden: How old were you when you first started to play?

Steve Maher: I was in second grade when I started taking drum lessons. And then up until like 13 or so I was playing drums and I played drums in my church. Uh, and then it was kind of funny. Like my parent, like my parents went away from the church and kind of went more towards like a um, spiritual route. So I went from like playing drums in the church to playing drums in drum circles, which was an interesting transition. And then I, um, you know, around like in high school, so like 14 or so I started going more into piano and um, and singing and developing those muscles as well with friends and you know, again, just jamming with uh, with people. And then really hit my stride in college when I was 18 and um, completely left what I was studying, which I was going to school for sustainable, um, construction. But then I, I was like, this is not. I don’t want to do this. You know, like. And so I just delve back into music and you know, created some projects in college, but also studying sound design, um, as well to just really chase the craft.

Steve Cuden: You know, you preferred gigging to uh, building things.

Steve Maher: Right, Right.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, I get it. It’s. You like the idea of performance. That’s what it’s all about.

Steve Maher: Right? Right. And u, um, you know, also just forming a bond with other musicians in that way. Again, it was like a team. I like, I love the team. Right. You know, I’ve been a solo artist and I’ve been in bands and I love the team aspect of it where, you know, that camaraderie, that um, silent communication where it’s like, you know, you just play so much together that you. You don’t even have to use words to communicate it. It’s really incredible that, that connection. And I really love that. And I, you know, I love the space where if I’m doing a gig just by myself. And I appreciate that too, um, that aspect of being a musician. But when I, when you have that connection with the other people around you and you just know that they have you. They’re holding you. We’re holding each other and, you know. Yeah. Making music and I really.

Steve Cuden: There’s nothing better than being in that group when everything is in sync, huh?

Steve Maher: 100%. 100%. Yeah, it’s a You know, it’s special.

Steve Cuden: How old were you when you started to write?

Steve Maher: High school. Yeah, so I started writing music in high school. And, uh, there’s this song called, uh, Road Trip. And, um. And I eventually did. Wrote that and recorded that song with my bank. My first band, Cuckoo Baby. And, um, yeah, very talented vocalist Devin Patton, who I was. She was the lead singer and I was on keys and backup vocals. But she was. She was incredibly, incredibly talented. And, um, yeah, we wrote a bunch of songs in college and then we actually left college and moved to Chicago together. And, um, getting into the Chicago scene was amazing because Chicago has a very vibrant art scene and jazz clubs. And there was this place called the Green Mill that I was going to. And it was like stepping in a time machine into, like, the 1920s and 30s big bands and, um, you know, really diving into the jazz element of music. And I think you’ve heard. You, like, you’ll hear my sound kind of progress more towards that. Like, Chicago definitely left an impact on me for sure.

Steve Cuden: Um, so when I listen to you play and I’ve heard a few of your songs now, um. Um, I can tell that you really love what you’re doing. There’s passion in it. How much does passion factor into it when you play?

Steve Maher: Like, it’s. It’s a very big element because. But. But there’s the key word you said too was play. Right? Like, I try to capture that essence of a child, right, where it’s like’m. I’m just having fun with it, you know, and I’m trying to, um, follow that fun. When I’m writing music, if, like, you know, if I’m writing something and it just feels good, I try to see that idea or see that thought all the way through. And like you said, you know, yeah, you’re playing music, but I’m also trying to play with the music and, you know, um, um, experiment and, you know, use instruments in ways they weren’t necessarily designed to be used. And, um, you know, I think that’s part of being an artist is just, you know, finding new, cool ways to capture sound. And, um. Um, our project specifically right now, we’re still really in love with the analog equipment, you know, and there’s, you Know, there’s keyboards with a thousand sounds and, uh, you know, it’s just a lot of choice. Right. It’s like the paradox of choice, where it’s like, you know, I love an analog keyboard where they might have, like, 36 sounds, where I can just, you know, modulate or, you know, mess around with the different effects and find a desired sound. But I have a much more palatable option to choose from. It’s just like 36, you know, different options I can choose and. But, yeah, that’s kind of.

Steve Cuden: It’s kind of. How do you ultimately make those decisions? What is the basis for saying, yes, we’re going to use this sound, not.

Steve Maher: That sound again, you know, kind of going back to what feels good and what in, um. Like what. What feels right. And it’s kind of a collective decision. Like, when it comes to music, we kind of. Luckily, when we’re writing together or we bring something to everyone, it’s kind of. It’s understood that you can throw ideas out there, but when a good idea is heard, everyone’s reaches a consensus where it’s like, yeah, let’s definitely do that because it just improves the song.

Steve Cuden: Um, so part of the process then, is for you all to play an experiment and look for what. Or listen for what works best.

Steve Maher: Right? Right. So the other guys in the project, it’s these three other beautiful minds that they all have their own talents and expertise where, for Mark, I would say he’s just flat out one of the most incredible musicians I’ve ever worked with, where, you know. But Tomas can, you know, write these incredible, catchy chord progressions, and, you know, me with lyrics and, um, you know, melodies as well. And Josh too. Like, everyone just has these great ideas that they can bring to the table that can take a song as. Again, as a solo artist that I might see it all the way through, like, if I take a song to them and it goes in a direction that I haven’t even anticipated. But at the end of the day, I liked the song because it was unexpected. That writing process where they brought in their, you know, their talent, their. Their thoughts, their creative ideas, and the end result is just something that’s. That gets me excited because, again, it was just not going anywhere I anticipated. But I love the end result.

Steve Cuden: So you say that you’re a fusion of funk, pop and soul, which is a, uh, very interesting fusion.

Steve Maher: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: What kind of music do you listen to that maybe influences you?

Steve Maher: It’s kind of funny. I. I mean, there’s the music that brought the project together. Right. That, you know, the music that we love and that we all vibed with, which was, you know, like the funk of the Sex. Like, we love the 60s and 70s, um, you know, funk, you know, Bootsy Collins, James Brown. But, you know, there’s also music I listen to that’s not necessarily the same as I write. It’s really interesting. Like, the music I listen to is nothing like the music I write, which I always find really interesting. But in a way, it’s. It’s, you know, like, for contemporary music, I really love this, like, modern soul movement that’s happening right now. Like, there’s people, like these sacred souls who are really, really exceptional. Um, Lady Ray is another, you know, contemporary example of, like, this beautiful modern soul movement. Dijon, who’s kind of like a. Frank Ocean. Frank Ocean. He sound, um. I love him as well. I love Frank Ocean as well. You know, like, that kind of like, you know, NDR and B sound is the music I find myself gravitating towards. But then I, like. I had this, like, you know, funky, disco, upbeat, you know, often dancing music. Right. So. But that’s, you know, Tomas bringing in his influences. And again, it’s just like, when you combine these different personalities who are writing and together that, like, what’s. What the separate pieces make to create something entirely new is always just a pleasant surprise.

Steve Cuden: So when you’re listening to these other songs that aren’t what you’re writing, it’s kind of permeating through you and then coming out in a different way. I assume it’s sort of percolating through your brain and coming out different style or different genre or a different sound entirely than what you’re listening to. But it’s somehow in there, isn’t it?

Steve Maher: Right, right. And I’d almost say, too, that it’s like putting it through the different lens of the other guys. Right? Like, it’s putting it through like the Thomas and Mark and Josh filter, you know, of just, like. It just adds different elements to the song. Right. You know, and that’s always an exciting thing for me, is to see what they. They add to and they come up with again, just putting their talents to. Which is what I think makes the project special. Right. Because it’s like it’s truly all of us, you know, kind of, um, collaborating to make that end result that we all. We’re all proud of.

Steve Cuden: So for you, what makes a good piece of music good, whether it’s your own or somebody else that you’re listening to, why do you gravitate toward something? What makes it good for you?

Steve Maher: I would say being dynamic in some sort of way while also being accessible. Right. So, you know, capturing my interest in a musical sense, you know, whether it’s, you know, a beautiful melody or a beautiful chord progression, which, you know, that’s. That’s subjective. But, you know, everyone can typically, typically agree that something sounds good, right. You know, it just sounds pleasing to the ears. And so with that being said, you know, sounding good. But also, I love a message too, like behind the lyrics, behind what the person is trying to say, who they’re trying to relate to, um, or maybe not relate to. Just, you know, get their experience out into the world. And by doing so, other people relate and that’s how they build their fan base, right. I really think it’s powerful when, you know, I mean, Kurt Cobain, you know, is an example of this. Everyone’s still super infatuated with him, you know, 30 years later, right? Like, he is. His. His power has not dulled for 30 years. It really hasn’t. And, you know, it might have gotten stronger, right. You know, his. His legendary status and. Because I really think what he was saying was resonating so hard with the general population, you know, and it just bursted through and he just. He struck a chord, no pun intended, on, um, you know, on whatever was going on in the society at that time. And so, you know, that’s another example of where, you know, people who are having. Who are saying something, right. That also really resonates with me as long as the, you know, mean in addition to the music being interesting and, um, captivating as well.

Steve Cuden: So you are going after songs that have depth to them, not just pieces of music for fun. There’s something behind them.

Steve Maher: 100%. 100%. And, you know, I do write about the lighter elements of. Of life, right. You know, in terms of love or, you know, you know, being playful and again, going back to like, being that child. Right? But there’s also, you know, there’s times where, you know It’s There are things that are. Need to be taken seriously and as an adult, right. You know, I call it like flipping the switch right into adulthood, back into adulthood. You know, if there’s a serious situation that, you know, you need to put on your big boy pants for that time being, right? Do it and you have, you know. And so with that being said, you know, society is going through a, uh, strange period right now, man. You know it.

Steve Cuden: That’s for sure.

Steve Maher: It’s very strange. It’s very, very strange. And, um, I feel like people. You see people getting restless and anxious and there’s anger that’s bubbling up and brewing. And my whole thing in terms of my music is, you know, as a result of human history. It’s just like a cycle of violence. Right. And I hope that we have enough technology and information and recognition that this is a global community. Most people don’t have anything against people 5,000 miles across the world in terms of going to war with this foreign nation. Um, most people don’t want to do that. Most people just want to live a life of dignity and raise their kids and give them a good life and calling to that where it doesn’t have to be this cycle of violence where you feel like it always edges to where like the last big one was World War II, right? And it’s like that was the last big cycle of violence. And it feels like it’s like that cadence of like 100 years, like something crazy happens. And it’s like, I hope. My hope as a messenger of music is that I’m, um, you know, calling recognition to be, hey, you know, you can build a better way than that. It doesn’t have to all, you know, have to reset like a phoenix and rise from the ashes.

Steve Cuden: Well, I have spoken to any number of friends and folks on this show about. During the latter part of the 60s and the early 70s, during the Vietnam War conflict, music helped to lead the way to a different thought process, 100%. And I’ve been waiting for musicians. I haven’t seen too many of them rise up and take stage with their music to lead the way to a different result. So I think it’s time to see musicians do that. Don’t you agree?

Steve Maher: I 100% agree. I really do. And I think a reason that we haven’t seen that is because there’s a lot of major interests behind keeping the status quo that it’s behind. The money behind music is not interested in progressive societal change, you know, where, you know, or, you know, uh, on a drastic scale. Right. You know, the status quo is making money.

Steve Cuden: Well, the money behind music is fewer and further between than ever before. Yeah, it’s very hard for musicians or songwriters to make a living today. Used to be. Used to be quite easy if they were any good. And now it’s become quite challenging. So let’s talk about songwriting. When you get an idea for a new song, where do you start?

Steve Maher: Where?

Steve Cuden: How do you get ideas? It just come to you all from all kinds of different places, or do you seek them out in certain places?

Steve Maher: Yeah, it always happens, um, a couple different ways, right. And I try to use that starting block to see it all the way through, right? So, you know, I like to go for a lot of walks and runs, and if, you know, I have an idea pop into my head, you know, I might record a V voice note into my phone, and, you know, that’s the. The starting piece that I, you know, see all the way through. And so it’s like, okay, if I just have vocals in a melody line, you know, then I add you chords behind it or underneath it or some sort of rhythm and structure, and that’s one way it can start. You know, it could start the other way where you. I’m just messing around on an instrument and, you know, coming up with a progression or a melody that I like, and then putting music to it with my voice and putting lyrics to it that way. Sometimes it comes at both, you know, um, both at once, you know, which. That’s amazing, right, if that happens. But it’s always like. It’s these different starting points that I try to respect where they’re at and then see it all the way through, that idea. And looping helps with me a lot, right? So it’s like if I have that, you know, that verse and, you know, if I’ll just record it on my computer and, like, loop that, and I’m like, uh, o. Like play that over and over again until I flesh it out and with a verse. And then it’s like, okay, you know, onto the chorus or onto a bridge. And it’s the same thing when I’m writing with Tomas or, you know, either the guys. It’s. It’s that looping mentality. Looping it until we flesh it out and figure it out and think that feels good, and then moving on and, you know, building those structures together.

Steve Cuden: Is it mostly music first or lyrics first?

Steve Maher: With Tomas, it’s. It’s kind. It’s at the same time a lot of, you know, it’s usually cohesive.

Steve Cuden: So do you need to have a hook in order to proceed?

Steve Maher: It’s Sometimes it’s more of like a placeholder, right? So it’s like placeholder lyrics where it’s like, you know, um, here’s kind of what I want the melody line to be, like, da. You know, like just singing the melody line. But then if I. If I’m not in love with the lyrics, uh, you know, I’ll try to, like, fit. In other words, that’s kind of the fun part with wordplay with me is, you know, just you’re swapping out these words as puzzle pieces for a complete picture. And you know something, if I don’t like a lyric and I’m not like, uh, you know, it doesn’t really resonate with me. It’s not 100% what I’m trying to say here and then. So it’s just like trial and error. Trial and error. Like seeing what feels good while I sing and what also sounds good to me. Um, you know, fun is a fun process. Right. It’s like, again, the words as puzzle pieces to build that. That structure.

Steve Cuden: Sure. Well, I’m a wordsmith myself, so I get it. You know, it’s. How do you make those words fit with the music, with the thoughts that it’s all cohesive? And that’s a challenge. Sometimes. Sometimes it comes very quickly, and sometimes it takes a while. I assume it’s the same for you, right?

Steve Maher: Yeah. Some songs. It’s also interesting, the timeline, because some songs I’ll be working on for months. Some songs I’ll write in, you know, a half hour, like, one session. And again, it’s just like, respecting that process of. That this song is where it was at. It’s not, uh, a. A quick one, which is fine. You know, it’s just. It still doesn’t mean I won’t love that song. It just takes more time. Or maybe, you know, that idea isn’t fully fleshed out at that moment.

Steve Cuden: Well, the audience has no idea how long it took you to write the song. All they really care about is the end result. Do they like it or not? Yes or no? It’s somewhat binary. Most people don’t go shrug their shoulders, eh, that song was okay, but I’ll listen to it a hundred more times. No, it’s usually I like it or I don’t like it. Uh, that’s that typical response to a piece of music. Sometimes, however, people have to get used to a song before they really like it. That happens, too.

Steve Maher: Yeah. I think that happens to be transparent with you. I think that happens with our projects in particular, a lot. Because, you know, I’m not. I think my voice is not what you consider, like, traditionally a good vocalist. But I do think it’s interesting, you know, And I do like to sing, but I’ve noticed that people, if, for whatever reason, they listen to our music, maybe they don’t like it at first, but if they keep listening to it, they get used to it. And then, like, I win Them over eventually? Well, 100%, yeah.

Steve Cuden: Uh, is there some special place that you typically go to for inspiration, or is it just from life in general, everything you go through? But is. Or is there a place that, you know, you can go to for inspiration?

Steve Maher: You know, kind of what we were talking about, like, there’s. There’s a lot of my own personal experience that I try to bring into my music. Um, but it’s also my perspective. Right. And what. What I’m seeing in the world and what I’m speaking on that I think other people aren’t, or maybe other people aren’t speaking on enough and giving voice to that, um, in a way that I think. I think music is the most powerful persuader that exists. It really binds people in a way that is. Is beautiful. You know, I know people, you know, say that going to a concert sometimes is like going to church or it’s having this spiritual experience or, you know, it’s like they’ve. They’ve been impacted deeply by just that happened. That’s happened to me numerous times. Like, you know, I can list a whole bunch of artists who I felt. I’ve thought about shows for months afterwards just because of how much of an impact it left on me.

Steve Cuden: And music has a tendency to be more emotional for people than intellectual. So it hits heart.

Steve Maher: Right, right. And that’s. And that’s how change happens, you know, And I. And I think that, uh, you know, when people are doing music really, really well, you are leaving the world a better place than you found it by putting. By putting forth those, you know, those sonic vibrations into bodies, into minds, and like you said, into hearts, opening hearts. You know, I really think it’s, uh, it’s a powerful thing.

Steve Cuden: What do you think you’ve learned from the process of songwriting and then playing? And we’re going to talk about performance in a moment, but what do you think you’ve learned from the process of creating music that up to now, you know, works really well and you want to continue doing it?

Steve Maher: Yeah, I think. Not putting pressure on it. Right. Um, you know, always have instruments around, you know, like, you know, if you’re like, if I’m traveling or whatever, I’m like, oh, if I’m like, okay, I want to have something near me that I can. Can play with, whether it’s a smaller keyboard or whatever, just because, um, I try not to force that inspiration. Uh, meaning, go live your life. Go do other things. Don’t just try to, like, you know, write music every single day and expect a hit to come out every day. Often the best music I’ve written is because there’s a story behind it. Right. Or there’s, you know, there’s an experience or, you know, s. There’s some conclusion drawn from, you know, a trip or, you know, a hardship. And. And so l. Going through those experiences, it allows that creative capital, I guess, to bubble up and to build. And so finally, when those musicians, I mean, those instruments are around you and you have a chance to be inspired by something you can. And it’s just easy. Right. And I’ve found that that’s usually the most fruitful. And, you know, I got a lot. I’ve got notebooks, like, full of stuff as a result. But it’s always just like, you know, it’s good to have that, like, backlog. Right. You know, where, you know, we have the capacity.

Steve Cuden: Great. To have a backlog.

Steve Maher: Right. Right. You know, and, um, to pick and choose. And, you know, I have, you know, a bunch of I’ll record ideas for, you know, the next album or whatever to, you know, bring to the guys and, you know, whosoever ideas wins. Right. You know, you know, if there’s a song that doesn’t make the cut, it doesn’t make the cut. Right. And that’s on us.

Steve Cuden: Uh, do you have instances where you’ve created a song, you bring it to the guys and they just don’t respond to it? Does that happen?

Steve Maher: Luckily, I think there’s been pieces where they. Can we work with it. Right. Where it’s like, maybe it’s not the entire idea, but there’s something there. There’s some kernel. Like, I thought it was fun. Right. You know. Know, I think you guys would too. Like, there was some recognition, there was something being heard on both ends where it’s like, yeah, part of that I did like, let’s flesh out that, you know, instead of maybe like the whole thing or, you know, I liked the chorus, but I didn’t love the verse or, you know, the bridge needs work. So luckily I was never completely shut down, I don’t think yet. You know, there’s always a. It’s always the first time.

Steve Cuden: Well, you know, even in the Beatles, they would, you know, George Harrison would present a song and they wouldn’t record it.

Steve Maher: Uh, right.

Steve Cuden: So that happens in bands because somebody is, you know, being more influential than somebody else. That can happen in a band.

Steve Maher: Right, Right. We just try to let the idea be the. Be the ruler. Right. Whereas, you know, bottom line is a good idea. Do we. Do we all like it? You know, and if we do, it’s like. Yeah, that’s, you know, that’s. We like that. It’s a good groove, it’s a good riff, it’s catchy. Or, you know, whatever. Whatever culmination of things we’re trying to go for with that specific piece of music, if we’re all aligned on that, you know, we move forward with it.

Steve Cuden: And then you’re fortunate because you’ve got this band with a hive mind that you all put your thoughts in it and hopefully improve it, make it work and make it sound great.

Steve Maher: Yeah, right, right. And the most. I think the most keyichial. I mean, the most keyial, crucial. Aspectial, crucial and key. Right. Uh, the most crucial.

Steve Cuden: It’s a new. You’ve coined a new word. Keishel.

Steve Maher: Yeah, yeah. Keishul, y’all. Uh, you know, hashtag it below. But, um, um. But, uh, no, I think the most crucial aspect of that is we are all. I really love those guys, you know, I really love them as friends, as, you know, at the end of the day I would do. If they asked me anything, what they needed, I would do it. And I think that’s really important because you’re spending a lot of time with these people. You know, it’s a relationship. It’s, you know, it’s a marriage of business and creativity.

Steve Cuden: Right. Indeed.

Steve Maher: And, you know. Yeah. So at the end of the day, you really have to, number one, spend a lot of time, a lot of hours, a lot of hours doing nothing. So it’s like, you know, hanging out has to be fun, you know, just if you’re waiting for a gig, you know, and it starts at five and you have to be there for sound. Cheeckk. But you don’t go on until 10, you know, that’s a lot of in between time. Right. To just. And if that’s night after night, you know, that’s a lot of time where you got to make the most of it and just, um. That’s definitely important, right. Is liking each other and that lends itself.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, I think that’s really great that you have that group of folks that you can rely on and you have faith in one another that you’re going to pull something out of a hat, even if you’re not sure when you start.

Steve Maher: Right.

Steve Cuden: Ah, that’s the magic of it. I think that’s really, really great. Once you have material now you have to do this other thing called performing. And so it’s not just as simple as creating the song. You have to then create then the performance of the song. Do you have a regular routine on working on your playing ability?

Steve Maher: Yeah, yeah. So typically I, um. I’m a morning person, right. Even though a lot of. A lot of the music is late at nights. Um, but so I try to, you know, start my mornings with, um, some combination of, um, exercise. Right. But then also, so it’s like I try to stimulate my body and my mind, you know, and so whether that’s, you know, going in the gym or going for a run, but then coming home and sitting at my keyboard for a little bit and, um, practicing, you know, so it’s like. It’s usually how I do it is like warm ups, um, do little ear training and then try to learn something new, right? Just like a new song, a new cover of something I want to play. Or, you know, just keep a new song in rotation and be always building that catalog. Um, as in addition to, you know, if there’s like the live performance aspect, which is like, with the band. So, like, that’s, you know, that’s a whole different ball game.

Steve Cuden: We’ll get to that. I want to. I want to stay on how you get there first total. You already told us you play drums and you play keyboards. Do you play other instruments as well?

Steve Maher: I mean, you know, singing, you know, if the voice. Right, if the voice is an instrument, which I think it is. Um, but, uh, otherwise, I’m not a great guitarist. I am. I’m trying to get better, but I do like to, you know, I’m trying to get better at guitar, right? And it’s. It’s. I have to play for whatever reason, I’m a lefty. So it’s like, yeah, I played the left. Lefty guitar. It just feels way better to me. So that’s something interesting that I discovered by myself, you know, where it’s like, you know, everyone’s guitar is a righty guitar.

Steve Cuden: But, um, it hasn’t hurt that guy McCartney at all.

Steve Maher: No, exactly. You know, and u. Um, you know, that’s what. It’s kind of what I’m telling myself where it’s like Paul trusted it. So, you know, you should too, because Tomas was a lefty and he’s. He learned, right? And he switched it righty. And so I’m a lefty, and I think I’m sticking lefty, which means I can play way less guitars, unfortunately. But, um, you know, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? But I’m trying to get that up there as well.

Steve Cuden: Do you play thinking about how you’re going toa perform for an audience?

Steve Maher: Yeah, I think my whole thing when I’m doing, um, a solo act is getting lost in it a little bit. You know, just taking them to what inspired me in the moment and what was what I was having fun with and reson, you know, feeling in that moment and trying to take that to that inception of that song and that emotion. Right. So if that’s intensity on the keys or just really dynamic and soft, but within intense or whatever the progression of the song goes, I really try to bring people with me where I was when I wrote it, and that’s kind of my North Star in terms of the live performance as a solo.

Steve Cuden: Do you ever, uh, approach a performance and for whatever reason you’re not in the right mindset? Does that ever happen to you?

Steve Maher: Yeah, yeah, that. So what do you do?

Steve Cuden: How do you get yourself in that mindset?

Steve Maher: So a friend of mine, uh, recently, because he, he’s also a very talented musician and he came to one of my gigs, he was just saying that, you know, regardless of whoever you’re playing to or the room or, you know, if the energy is weird, you know, because like, sometimes you walk into a room and it’s dead. Right? And that’s, that’s. I mean, it’s kind of fun because it’s like this war of attention where it’s like, I’m go goingna get you on my side, you know, and I’mn, uh, you’re go goingna dance, right? You know, to this music, so help me. So there’s the fun, like, competitive element of it, but there’s also that energy can throw you off. But I’m trying to go into every gig with a mentality of like, this is for me too. Like, this is also a lot of fun for me. So I don’t care what anyone thinks. If I’m being crazy, if I’m, you know, bouncing around stage, I don’t care because I’m trying to play the music for the people that will resonate with it. So, you know, even if I only convert, you know, a couple people in that room as fans, that’s worth it to me because those people are worth it to build that community and hopefully have them identify with. I’m just trying to play music and have fun and, you know, uh, if you do too, amazing. I’m glad we could have that shared experience together.

Steve Cuden: Well, once again, you go back to that word play you’re playing, which is a child’s word, children play. And that’s what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to get the audience to play along with you, I guess.

Steve Maher: Yeah. I say get out of your heads and into your bodies. Right? You know, like, get out of your head. Like, you know, it’s like, well, you know, do I look cool? It’s like, like.

Steve Cuden: But when you’re not in the mood, what do you do? How do you get yourself up for the show?

Steve Maher: To be honest, there’s always a part of me that I’m always excited to play. Like, there’s never a part of me that’s like, uh, you know, so it’s, you know, it’s. Why I do all of it, right? You know, all the back behind the scenes and you know, the practicing, like, it’s not, you know, of course the music is for me. And there’s like, there’s something we said in that discipline of practice and rehearsal. But, but, you know, there’s also that beauty of sharing that experience with others and having them resonate with it, with that, with that energy. And it’s, you know, it kind of makes all that, all the, you know, the music is difficult industry to be a part of. Right. You know, there’s a lot of it. It’s a landmine of bad decisions that can just lead you down a bad path, you know, um, or, you know, for the project to fail quickly. And, you know, I try to avoid that by doing, um, other things.

Steve Cuden: Do you do things with your hands and arms so that you can play over long periods of time or are you still just in it where it’s not that big a deal to you? It’s not a problem physically to play?

Steve Maher: Yeah, I mean, I stretch. I stretch a lot. Um, I don’t know if that helps my, my playing, but I think it helps my mind and my body, you know, in general. So, you know, I am always stretch just to, you know, I even do it before, like again, like, I kind of treat the gigs like it’s a sporting event. Like I’m going to, you know, um, I’m going out with my team and we’re, we’re going to go play a game. So, like, I’m literally stretching before, like I go on stage and, um, doing warm ups, right? So it’s like, you know, vocal warm ups or, uh, you know, if I had my keys backstage with the keys, warm ups, you know, so it’s like again, you know, it’s like those warm up lines at a basketball game or, you know, before football game where they’re stretching on the field.

Steve Cuden: That’s your pre show ritual, isn’t it yes.

Steve Maher: Yeah, 100%. I’m really, you know, getting in my body, get out of my head, you know, get in my body. Right. And, um, and by doing that, I can just kind of float into it. Float into the, into the, into the performance in the right headspace.

Steve Cuden: So then what would you say are the biggest challenges that you usually face going into a live performance?

Steve Maher: Yeah, sometimes. I mean, you get thrown all sorts of hurdles before gigs. You know, sometimes if a piece of equipment isn’t working, if u. You know, the sound system at the venue is a little wonky or you know, just like, you know, during sound check, nothing really sounds right or, you know, a big part of my concern as a vocalist is I want to hear my lyrics in my. Either in my monitors or in my ears. And you know, if I don’t, you know, you kind of have, like, there’s a lot of gigs where you’re just on the fly and you’re just coping with it, right. And you’re just, you know, every, every gig is a new situation and a new set of problems that you just have, but the show must go on, right? So you’re just kind of navigating that. That set of circumstances, that hand of cards that you’re dealt before every gig and trying to problem solve and then get into that headspace and hopefully have a chill a couple 20 minutes beforehand whatever the cases is, and then to go out and perform. But you know, there’s always. Yeah, your problem solving. Right. For a lot of it. Because it’s, you know, it’s not. There’s no consistency going from place to place to place to place to place. You know, I mean, there’s consistency in what you’re performing and your material on your equipment. But the environment changes every time and the energy changes every time and the people change every time. And America is humongous. And you know, there’s a whole different. Different audiences react in different ways, you know, in different parts of the country. And you have to, you know, like I said, try a little harder in that war of retention. Right. And you really, really bring your A game or you could go somewhere and people love you right off the bat. Which is. Both are interesting and have their own merit. Um, but you know, again, it’s just like you’re always dealing with something new.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s what I love about live performance and theater and so on is you may be doing the same songs over and over again, but every Performance is different in some way, right? It’s always unique. Each performance is unique. There’s no two that are the same.

Steve Maher: No, there really isn’t. There really isn’t. But yeah, like, you know, there’s something special. Each one is like a little gift, a little gift of a moment in time.

Steve Cuden: Do you do anything differently now in working on stage live than when you started out that you went and early on? This is not going to work. I’ve got a change to do this. Is there something you do differently now?

Steve Maher: Yeah, yeah. Again, as a vocalist. And you know, a lot of, A lot of the venues use monitors, right? Where they’re just, they’re blasting a speaker at you. And, um, this is another thing too, for any young musicians. You know, protect your ears early and often. Because um, I have tinnitus in my left one. You do not want it. So protect your ears. Wear ear protection. And ideally, good ear protection, right? You know, if you go to an audiologist and get custom fitted earplugs, you know, it really creates a good seal. So you protect your ears for as long as possible. Because we’re in constantly in loud environments. So that’s first and foremost. And then after that, it’s also the. Any ear that you’re using, not the monitors. Like, so we have a whole line ear system. I can hear myself, so I can perform better because I’m hearing my vocals, whereas through the monitors, um, it’s through ear protection. So. And it’s just blasting sound at me. So it’s like I can’t really hear. I’m just trusting that based on skill and experience that I’m hitting my notes and you know, it’s coming through how I want it. But I truly don’t know at the end of the day. But when I have my in ear set up in, I really know I’m like, yep, I’m hitting, I hit that, you know, onto the next, you know.

Steve Cuden: Uh, so what would you do if you got to a gig and for some reason you couldn’t hook that up?

Steve Maher: What would you again, you know, just throwing the earplugs and skill and experience. Right. You know? Cause that’s happened that, that does happen, you know, sometimes. Um, um. And so at the end of the day, you got to fall back on something where it’s like, I know at the end of the day, if I have a power outlet in my keys and it’s just me and my vocals, like, I could still perform. You know, it might be really stripped back set, but it’s it’s still going to happen, right?

Steve Cuden: What’s your favorite thing about performing? What do you love?

Steve Maher: I really like getting people moving. You know, I really like, uh, you know, seeing people perk up and, you know, getting their body a little bit and just see an energy build over, you know, like, if we first start playing and then, you know, it’s kind of like a little quiet the first couple songs, but then if we’re hitting them really hard with a. With an intentional set, and sometimes we’ll call audibles on songs just because it’s like, again, it’s that war of attention where, you know, I think this song will really get people moving at this moment in time. Like, they’re starting a little slowly. Like, let’s hit them with something fast or danceier. Disco. And get that energy up and keep it up, you know, and, like, pedal to the metal in different ways. Um, because all of our songs are, you know, different vibes, you know, whether it’s, like, slow or faster, but, you know, giving it its full worth of energy.

Steve Cuden: So you give some thought to programming the evening in terms of what you’re playing, in what order, so that it builds in some way. Is that right?

Steve Maher: Totally. Yeah. Building. Yeah, you know, building your set, um, with intention. But, you know, like I said, sometimes we. Which can drive some of the musicians we work with crazy. Um, but like, sometimes we’ll throw in, you know, a song, like, just off the. You know, off the cuff because it’s. It feels right. Or, you know, the. You know, we want to keep the energy up and, you know, the next song was supposed to be a slower one, but it’s like, no, let’s. Like, let’s push it some more and, you know, let’s keep the, you know, the pace going or, you know, sometimes if the crowd’s going a little too crazy and, uh. Uh, you know, we’re, uh. They’re kicking us out u. You know. You know, which we’ve done before, too. Like, we play a slower song to calm the energy back down, and then we’re like, all right, you know, good night, y’all. Like, that was it, you know, because. So not to. Not to cause, um. Um. Any, uh, sound disturbances or anything like that. Um, because people have kids and I get it, but it’s still a lot of fun.

Steve Cuden: What would you say the biggest disaster you and the band have been in and how did you get your way out of it?

Steve Maher: I’ll say the biggest ones are weather. Right.

Steve Cuden: So you play a lot of outdoor gigs.

Steve Maher: Yeah. Yeah. And, um. Um, especially, you know, in areas where the weather can be dynamic. Colorado, Midwest especially, you know, it’s like, uh, you can get four different climates in one day where, you know, hail and sunshine. And it was just yesterday in Colorado, you know, golf ball hail. But then it was beautiful in the morning, you know, 80 degrees or 88 degrees, sunny and bright and. But the main point being, um, you know, that we have thousands of dollars of gear. Right? That’s our investment. That’s our. That’s our livelihood in that regard for the music. And so you have to protect that. Right. So, um, you know, gear insurance is definitely something I recommend if people are gigging regularly. You know, just, um, some sort of insurance on your gear in case that, you know, something terrible does happen. But, um, also being ready, you know, like, we’re at the drop of a hat. We just, you know, have tarps or whatever the case is, ready to just cover the instruments and, you know, be ready for that. Because we’ve had, you know, some instances where, you know, all of a sudden we were just getting rained on and, you know, panicking. And, you know, I don’t want anyone to lose their gear to weather. Right. So, you know, definitely, definitely that’s something, uh, to be aware of. But we also live in a crazy environment. Like I said, you know, it’s not typical for everyone.

Steve Cuden: Do you folks arrange your own pieces? Do you already have. Do you arrange them or do you. The group, arrange them as a whole?

Steve Maher: Yeah. So typically it’s, um, M. Tomas bringing an idea to the group at large, um, and then everyone adding their piece. So, um, you know, I’ll bring out a song, depending on how fleshed out it is, might be all the way. Or, you know, just, like, I’d love you guys to add some parts or add some solos, um, or it’s, you know, a half idea, and then we flesh it out together. But, you know, everyone does have, um, their input, which I really appreciate.

Steve Cuden: Do you consider yourself to be a Ranger?

Steve Maher: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean, bring. I’m bringing ideas, you. Chord progressions, melodies to them, um, that I think are fun. And, you know, again, if that idea wins out and it holds, you know, amazing. Like, I have the respect of three other people who. I value their opinion strongly, you know, so it’s like, okay, if they think it’s good, I think it’s good.

Steve Cuden: So tell the listeners who may not know how important the arrangement, or you could call it the orchestration, but with a band, it typically is an Arrangement, not an orchestration. Tell the listeners how a variety of different arrangements impact the way the songs are received or perceived.

Steve Maher: Yeah, I think it’s. Again, It goes back to the root idea of, like, what are the emotions? Or. And what are the words? What’s the message you’re trying to say? And forming that cohesive idea with the music. So, you know, if it’s. If I’m trying to, like, let out emotion, if I’m trying to really make a point with. With. With the lyrics or the message behind the music, you’re using the music like, uh, a weapon, you know what I mean, on your side, to incorporate that, to really put an emphasis on that message. And so, you know, if I want a hard hit, you know, some hard or, you know, power chords or whatever the cases, you know, I can do that. But if Also, you know, in contrast, if I want to make something softer or, you know, a little more dynamic and, you know, ease people into a groove or a melody. Groove is really important for us especially. We, you know, um, kind of that funk element, right, where it’s like, you know, just that, like, you know, you know, might be one core with a den. Den. Den. You know, that’s like one core that you’re really riffing on. But then Mark comes in behind that with the do, you know, like. And then the drums are also hitting that, like, groove for our style of music is also really important.

Steve Cuden: Um, well, groove is everything, and funk, you know.

Steve Maher: Right, right. And so, like, when we incorporate elements of, like, the funk into, like, more solely or pop sounds, you know, that can. That can be interesting for our arrangements. And, um, you know, it’s just seeing where you fit. And that’s part of being a musician is being a really good listener. Right? And, you know, seeing where everyone else is playing and where they’re fitting in and then you fitting in as well. And so, you know, as a keys player, you know, it might just be a couple chords where, like, they’re doing that, like, that D D. And I’m just like pop, pop, you know, just like, hitting, like, the space in between them where it’s like I’m filling out a sound, but I’m also working with the rhythms that they’re operating in and just trying to compliment and add to it and not take away from anything, but filling into that, uh, smoothly. Like a river. Like a river of sound, you know, just adding that extra current.

Steve Cuden: Well, yeah, if you don’t have that rhythm or that smoothness, it’s going to come out pretty clunky I would think.

Steve Maher: Right, right. And that’s part of like playing together and gigging off often and getting know each other and, and again forming that silent communication with each other because that’s. You kind of instinctually know where we’re going toa go with something.

Steve Cuden: And once you have a song and you have the arrangement, you know what each of your pieces are going to play.

Steve Maher: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: How much rehearsal do you go through? What’s your rehearsal process?

Steve Maher: I mean it’s interesting because like the writing we’re kind of arranging in real time sometimes, you know, where it’s just like again we have to, hey, I got this initial idea. Let’s see where you know, fit into it and again attacking it over and over and over again until it feels like everyone’s on the same page and we feel like it’s right. So that takes just a lot of repetition. Right. And once we have a song like we have our uh, we can go gig and do a three hour set and like we have a backup set to go to. Right. If we’re trying to like go and experiment and do new things and write new music, it’s like for us to rehearse for new music and new elements and a new performance, like that’s a lot. Right. You know that I would at least want to rehear with them a couple times a week to able to get that up to speed, you know, but with the music that we have and that we’ve been playing for years and, and years, you know, it’s like we don’t need as much rehearsal for the stuff that we’ve historically played, you know, hundreds of times.

Steve Cuden: Do you rehearse during the day of show or not at all?

Steve Maher: Typically, uh, sometime during the week before, but day of show. It’s kind of understood that you know, if you want to rehear something, it’s do so but you know, kind of on your own. But then we do come together for just hanging out. Right. Just being in each other’s presence.

Steve Cuden: Do you think that helps you to be loose on stage?

Steve Maher: I think so. You know, like, I think everyone has their process, right. Their own warm up process, like I said, with vocals or whatever. And I think by doing that, um, you know, they get in their own, you know, their own ritual, their own mindset. But then we have that chance to come together and just hang out and be with each other before we go on stage. Because I think that’s also important just to, you know, get the mood right, have it be playful, have it be fun, um, and be ready.

Steve Cuden: Well, again, you guys have to be in sync on stage.

Steve Maher: Right.

Steve Cuden: I guess it’s good that you have some kind of a meeting of the minds before you go on stage.

Steve Maher: Right? Right.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, exact. That’s why you hear about so many performers having pre show gatherings of everybody that’s going to be on stage.

Steve Maher: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: And that way you’re sort of in the same mindset.

Steve Maher: Totally, totally. Food’s a big element too for that. Right. Where you know what is? I think foods a powerful way to bring people together.

Steve Cuden: How so? How?

Steve Maher: You know, just sharing a meal together. Right. And, and we often cook for each other. Right. You know, Tomas is. And I myself, like, we both like to cook and you know, so if we have a rehearsal or you know, something, we, we cook a meal before and um, you know, had that breaking of the bread with each other and you know, checking in with each other, you know, how you doing? How was your week? And again checking in and um.

Steve Cuden: Like a family, right?

Steve Maher: Yeah, yeah. Having that time together and um, to just decompress and if, you know, I had a rough day at work or I had a rough day, you know, you know, just. Or whatever the case is, you know, just being there for each other. So we can go and uh, you know, attack the music in a good headspace.

Steve Cuden: So I’m curious, what current keyboardists do you admire and look up to and you think, wow, that’s really special.

Steve Maher: Yeah. Corey Henry, you know, is ah, phenomenal. His uh, with uh. I mean he does a whole bunch of stuff, but I think was. He was really known from Snarky Puppy.

Steve Cuden: But um, Snarky puppy is off the chain.

Steve Maher: Off the chain, off the chain. So you know, they’re just, they’re just on a whole nother level of um, what you know, what people can do. But they’re, you know, so they’re really excellent. That’s a really excellent, uh, that’s a.

Steve Cuden: Big band by comparison to Four Pieces.

Steve Maher: Oh, totally. I mean, you know, but the fact that they can do it, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s. I see, you know. Yeah. 30 livelihoods that that project is sustaining. And that’s a amazing, you know, that’s, that’s incredible. You know, and you know, if we can do that too, like we have friends I would love to bring along with us. You know, if we could have seven, you know, or eight players on stage, you know, uh, amazing. But again it’s, you know, can we, can we do them justice? And pay them, you know, and serve them in a way that’s fair because.

Steve Cuden: I really love Snarky Puppy. They’re great.

Steve Maher: They’re great, right? Yeah, they’re exceptional. But, um. So in terms of keys, but another person, uh, contemporary love, I just. As a songwriter, you know, is, um, Justin Vernon of Bonnie Bear. Uh. He’s just. I don’t know, man. He’s just. His music has helped me a lot, and I just really resonate with him. And he’s always, you know, just from. I remember, like, his first album came out like, Fore Emma forever ago. And just to see his progression is like this, like, folky singer songwriter to. You know, he’s worked with Taylor Swift and Kanye west and like, you know, he’s been like. He’s had this crazy main ##stream, crossover too, but he’s still like. But I still love all of his music, you know, and he incorporated these, like, techno elements into, um. You know, these like, crazy instrumentation into his music. So he’s another person that I really resonate, uh, as well with and, uh, look up to.

Steve Cuden: I am having the most marvelous conversation with Steve Mar about music and life and composing and all those wonderful things. And, uh, I’m just wondering. You’ve obviously worked for a while and you’ve, uh, met and dealt with lots of people in the music business and I assume in the entertainment industry. And I’m wondering if you have a story that you can share with us that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or just plain funny.

Steve Maher: Yeah, I think the main. I mean, the funniest part about this project was, I think, how we all met, right? So I met these guys three years ago, and I was like. Like I was telling. Like I was saying, you know, when Covid happened and music really took, uh, a landslide into obscurity, you know, for. You know, there’s no live performances for a couple years, right. And I had to pivot the podcasting, and so I got a little bit into that. And, you know, I just moved to Denver and I was looking for musicians to gig around with. And one of my people I was working with, Sam, she met someone in Vietnam, of all places, that she was like, oh, like, I know this kid. Like, he. And they happened to. When they were in Vietnam, they realized that they both lived on the Front Range in Colorado, and he was a musician. And. And that person was Matthew Melanie, who was our first drummer. Right. And he sometimes he plays bass with us too, as well now. And, um, we were about to Jam for the first time. And he brought Tomas to my house, and we started jamming in our garage. And, like, immediately, like, we just clicked, and we were right out, you know, we were just, uh, literally writing songs from the. From the jump. And I’ve played, you know, you. I’ve been to a lot of cities. You know, I lived in Chicago, you know, Boston, and, um, Denver. And you meet a lot of musicians. And we’re weird. Like, we’re weird people. You know.

Steve Cuden: No comment. No comment.

Steve Maher: I’m weird, too. Like, I am weird, but it’s like, you know, you do. You know, you do meet some people. And again, it’s the chemistry thing. Like, can you hang out with these people, you know, for hours and hours on end? And, you know, not that someone might not be talented, but it’s just that I really think that part is more important, um, necessarily than the talent, you know, is the chemistry. Um, although talent is very important too. But. So, yeah, me and Tomas just clicked, like, you know, immediately. And, um, you know, Matthew was in and out, but me and Tomas really resonated and, um, built a project from there. And, um, we found Mark on Instagram. Uh, you know, he was. I. He was just. He was. He was just shredding his base. Like, he was just like, you know, hey, he posted in, like, some group online, like, you know, looking for a project, and I was, like, messaging them immediately just because he was such a player. Like, he was just such a professional. And, you know, a bunch of other people I know were hitting him up, too. And, um, luckily, he again, you know, he liked our sound and, like, what we were doing, and we looped him in, into the project. And then with Josh, Josh was, um, working at a drum shop, and he. I just, like, again, like, you know, you just feel these energy with these people you meet. And, um, so I met. I met Josh at that drum shop and, you know, remembered him, like, got a good feeling from him. And then when Matthew was kind of like, taking a step back from the project, I remember Josh and I was like, oh, he works at a drum shop. He must be a good Dr. You know, he has to be halfway decent, right? And, um, and it turned out he was, you know, he was that and more. And on top of that, too, like, you know, again, following that feeling of, like, yo, he’s just a good dude. And, um, he’s just a good person, and, you know, he’s a good friend and, you know, and that luckily, hopefully I have that good judge of character. Has been, hopefully been accurate, you know, for, um. And it’s proven to be true. You know, I’m very lucky to have those three. And that’s kind of just like the story of, like, how we form and then they keep on progressing. So. Yeah. The beach, a random encounter in a beach in Vietnam kind of kicked this whole thing off.

Steve Cuden: Uh, wow. Well, you know, you can’t manufacture chemistry. It’s either there or it isn’t.

Steve Maher: Right.

Steve Cuden: And then when it works, it’s a phenomenal thing. And when it doesn’t, it’s frustrating.

Steve Maher: Right, Right. No, I say I’ve been looking for them, you know, my whole life. Not that I haven’t had chemistry with people in the past. Right. Um, um, and in projects in the past, um, you know, like I was saying with Cuckoo Baby, but, um, you have to be aligned on a lot more than just the music. You know, it’s the business. Like I was saying, like, it’s your creative partner. Right. For the music, but it’s also your business partner. And if you have four people aligned on that vision of, you know, putting in work to elevate the business side of things, that’s powerful. That is powerful, you know, but you just have one person trying to do it all. You know, people can get burnt out or, you know, you know, you know, people feel like they’re pulling more weight or whatever. And that just creates this whole, um, tension in the project. In addition to money, like, if you’re not making money, if you’re not operating as a business, you know, money keeps people around. If we’re being honest, you know, and if you’re not paying people, they’re not going to stick around. Um, but if you are and you’re treating it them as adults and as professionals, they’re much more likely to stick around. Right. Because you are treating them, you know, as they share be. Right. And valuing their time and respecting them as an adult and as a professional. Like I said, you know, you’re just trying to be as intentional about all aspects of the project as you can possibly be.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that that’s really marvelous when you find each other like that. That’s a gift that you’ve.

Steve Maher: A gift. No. 100%.

Steve Cuden: Yeah. So, last question for you today, uh, Steve, do you have a solid piece of advice or a tip that you can lend to those who are maybe just starting out, or maybe they’re in a tiny bit trying to get to the next level?

Steve Maher: Yeah, I would say it’s going to be a hard aspect because it’s really uncomfortable at first, but really get really good at negotiating. You are going to come across so many people trying to take advantage of you. Not, uh, and just in general in life, but you know, in music too. You know, there’s, there’s. It’s just that you just got to navigate a lot of scams, I guess, you know, or like, you know, just ways people can, um, take money from you and to just be transparent because that’s just been the history of the industry at large, right? Was has been manage managers or record labels or you venues just, you knowbb robbing the artist and the artists have no idea. Right? And so again, what does that go back to? That goes back to, you know, knowing the finances of the project and, you know, knowing how to read a balance sheet, right? And, you know, making sure that merch or, you know, sales are coming in, that the numbers make sense, right? You don’t have a loss of inventory or, you know, if you sold a certain amount of, you know, you should have more money than the inventory is missing or, you know, just all those elements that can come into play. So you got to be savvy but also negotiate hard when like, you know, there’s. There’s some unfortunate instances with people that are close to me that I know that, you know, some people have lost as much as $14,000 on a transaction or, you know, on. On a, you know, they’re supposed to be paid that amount as at the end of a festival or whatever the case, and they were stiffed, right? And that, that’s a blow. That’s a lot of money. You know, if any musician got a $14,000 check, I. They would say that’s, that’s a, that’s a decent amount of money for a day’s work as a musician. Right. You know, most musicians never see that. To be stiffed in amount like that can. Can be shattering. Right? You know, and it’s just, it’s really disheartening. And so what does that mean? Right? That means, you know, being super. No one’s going toa stick out for you more than you. Right? And so, you know, that’s being a fierce negotiator when you’re negotiating with venues on, you know, the contract splits or, you know, if they want merch sales, you know, and while you’re playing a show there, it’s like, you know, I really fight that because I really just annoys me. Um, but sometimes, you know, they, you know, they want their cut even though they’re taking a lot More in alcohol sales. But, you know, I digress, you know. Yeah, it’s just sticking up for yourself at the end of the day. Stick up for yourself, no one else will. Everyone’s trying to take advantage or some people have good hearts, but, you know, that’s few and far. Um, it’s a business. Right, but don’t let that get you down. There’s also this quote where Antonio Gramsci, he was an Italian philosopher, he died in a Mussolini prison, um, in fascist Italy in the 1930s. But his quote was pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will. Meaning, don’t be very aware of how the world is trying to screw you, I guess. But don’t let it get you down. Use it as a catalyst for change and for hope and building a better music. Like, you know, I want it to be more cooperative among musicians and, you know, more independent maybe and, you know, self sufficient. Right. Like it’s a lot of work to run the business all by yourself, but you can do it. And at the end of the day, you know, you’ll probably make a better living because of it.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that that’s very inspirational. Steve Maher, this has been a terrific hour on Story Beat and I’m very grateful for your time and your wisdom and I thank you for spend this time with me on the show today.

Steve Maher: Thank you for having me. Yeah, I appreciate it.

Steve Cuden: So as promised, we do have a real treat for you. So sit back now and please enjoy, Steve and his band night routine playing the song Springtime Shine.

Song: Coming like it’s just one of those days. Will I be in the way of everyone except for you except for you you love. And the weight of my will is fill aut obstacle remedy Searching for serenity will be death of me. But you got that springtime shine. You’re looking so new know how you look so fun and this is overdue Given that gift of a uh life. When you’re giving that gift of a lie. And who am I without you? And you got that springtime sign you’re looking so brand new know how you look so fun and this is overdue but you’re giving that gifts of a uh life. When you’re giving that gifts of a life and who am I without you. Mhm.Like I feel so type way and I can not stay for many wor except for you. Except for you. You can. In the weight of my will is filled with obstacles and remedy. Searching for serenity will be the death of me. You got that springtonshine you’re looking so brand new and know how you look so fun and this is overdue but given that gives of a life and you’re giving that GS of a life and who am I without you? Hey you got that spring timeshine uh you looking so re new and know how you look so fin then this is over too but you’re given that g of a life when you’re giving that g of a life and who am I without you?

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating or review on whatever app or platform you’re listening to? Your support helps us bring more great Story Beat episodes to you. StoryBeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, TuneIn, and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden, and may all your stories be unforgettable.