Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

Tim Quinn: Inevitably just about everybody who showed me their work would start by saying ‘This, oh, uh, it’s not very good this, but, uh, uh…’ to which I would of course have to say, ‘Well, why are you showing it me, then?’ You’ve got to believe in your stuff because if you don’t, why should anybody else believe it? And if you don’t, then… get a good agent.

Announcer: This is StoryBeat with Steve Cuden, a podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment.

Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Well, joining me for the second time on StoryBeat is the author, editor, and manager Tim Quinn, who was born and raised in Liverpool, England, the home of the Beatles.

Tim began his show business journey as a clown at Blackpool Tower Circus, followed by working as a script writer for various comedians of the period. Comic books came next as Tim worked as a writer and editor for Britain’s Top Periodicals, followed by a long stint at Marvel Comics. Tim also conducted interviews for newspapers and magazines with stars from the entertainment world, followed by many years creating documentaries for London Weekend television’s South Bank show.

During that time, he was also working as an editor for this Saturday evening post. Tim and his wife Jane, created the publishing company, Quill Publications and a music business, mighty Quinn Management. Tim’s latest novel, bigger than the Beatles. Tells the story of a Liverpool boy who picked up a guitar in 1957 and went on to global success with his band, the Dream Daffodils.

We follow his story across the years until his final death tour in 2025. Many of Tim and Jane’s real life experiences in the music business are incorporated into the book. I’ve read Bigger than The Beatles and can tell you it’s all that you’d expect from a Tim Quinn book, exceptional incisive writing that’s filled with a huge helping of clever humor about the Liverpool music scene.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading Bigger than The Beatles, and highly recommended to you. It’s the second book of Tim’s that I’ve had the pleasure to read. The other being the Jolly Bloodbath. Tim has also published his autobiography, Argh, which I encourage you to check out. So for all those reasons and many more, I’m delighted to welcome the brilliant writer, editor and manager Tim Quinn, back for his second spin in the StoryBeat barrel.

Tim, it’s so great to have you on the show again.

Tim Quinn: Steve, it’s a delight. Uh, I’ve been listening to your shows and, uh, always enjoy them. Highlight. Thank you. Uh, the month, the week, whatever, you know. Uh, so it’s, it’s great to be back and have this connection.

Steve Cuden: Well, I appreciate it. I greatly do, and I’m so happy to have you on again.

So let’s go back in time just a little bit. You’ve obviously spent years in various corners of the entertainment industry. You’re, you know, multi-talented in many different ways in including writing for comedians, comic books, and music management. Why do you think you’ve gone down so many different paths in your career?

Tim Quinn: Because I keep getting fired. Uh,

Steve Cuden: that’ll do it.

Tim Quinn: No, I, I, I think early on, I, I realized not to put all my eggs in one basket, although they all are connected. These eggs are all connected and well, for example, so I, I was doing comic strips for years when suddenly in a single bound, I started making documentaries.

And initially I was concerned that, I dunno if I can do this, you know, because that’s quite a leap, but it’s not, it’s actually not a leap in any way whatsoever. Why? Why is it not a leap? Because if you are telling stories, and I’ve done every kind of comic strip imaginable from, uh, daily three framers in a newspaper to 24 pages or beyond to graphic novels.

When you tell a story, you tell a story. And when you do a documentary, guess what? You’re just telling a story. You just, uh, it’s not on paper, it’s on, on, uh, film. So it’s, it’s pretty much the same process. You know, you want to get, you know, a good story out of it. And luckily, the very first documentary that I put together.

Well, I could have done it with my eyes closed, quite frankly, because it was the story of Marvel Comics. So it connected very closely to me. And, uh, that’s where you

Steve Cuden: met Stan Lee, right?

Tim Quinn: Well, I’d already met Stan, uh, because I had Stan working for me at, uh, the Saturday Evening Post magazine. ’cause when I got the job at the Saturday Evening Post as one of the editors there, I suddenly realized that, well, it opened every door in America to me, uh, because it was a very well respected magazine because of its rich history.

And I thought I be stanler likes the Saturday Evening Post, uh, because of Norman Rockwell and, you know, just, just, uh, I mean, it, it truly is when you look back through, particularly through the fifties and sixties. It’s amazing magazine. Uh, I have, I have indeed a billion copies here in my office. Um, a terrific magazine.

And sure enough, when I approached Stan with the idea of getting him to do something for the Post, he was on board instantly. Uh, and it’s one of my fi happiest pieces of memorabilia, my first letter from Stan way, way back. And that connected us. Uh, and it turned out Stan actually knew one of the daily strips that I, I was producing, even though at that point I was living in Indiana where the Post was situated.

Um, but Stan knew one of the daily strips I was, uh, uh, writing back in the uk. Now, bear in mind, Stan had been my hero since I was seven years of age, you know? Mm-hmm. And this was before he’d started creating the Marvel superheroes. Uh, I loved the work he was doing on, on what was sort of twilight zone type comic books, you know, uh, that were quite fantastic.

So I, I was well aware of his name way back when I was seven. So it was fantastic to be able to get this opportunity to reach out and actually get him to do some work for me. But through that we got to know each other and, um, that led to all sorts of things in my life.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. Indeed. Eventually Marvel. I assume that’s part of it.

Yeah,

Tim Quinn: quite. Yeah. Although I had done some work for Marvel before that. It’s a very bizarre life that I’ve led. And, and when I, and I apologize for creaking, uh, I’m so old and listeners here, we’re both

Steve Cuden: old and creaky in my

Tim Quinn: chair. Um, and I’m trying to sit still. Uh, it is an odd life ’cause it, it veers all over the place, but with good reason.

And, and it’s kind of, for me, it’s interesting. In the last year I’ve, for the first time been reading the journals and diaries written by my wife and I from when we first met, uh, way back in, in the early eighties. And, uh, it’s, uh, that we always kept journals, but we never read them because you don’t. So now, all these years later, it’s quite fascinating to, to read of things that almost happened and indeed things that did happen.

Steve Cuden: And as you say, you have had a very rich and varied career and life’s experiences. You’ve been all over the map with some things. Many of them, if not most of them, very, very successful.

Tim Quinn: Oh, I have to jump, I have to jump in there and say the majority of them. Completely unsuccessful.

Steve Cuden: Unsuccessful.

Tim Quinn: But no, because I think that’s the way it’s in the arts, you know?

It, it

Steve Cuden: really is. It truly

Tim Quinn: is. It’s, you know, for every, um, success, there’s probably, uh, 49 things that didn’t quite make it.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that’s what, uh, most people that are trying to be in the business in some way, whatever end of it they want to be in, they all, all they see in the trades and in the news are the successes.

They don’t see the many failures that it took to get to the success.

Tim Quinn: Well, that’s interesting you should say that. ’cause when I returned to the UK after living in the States for years, uh, my old school saw that there was something in a local paper about me, you know, a return of prodigal or whatever. And my old school contacted me and said that they would like me to come along to, um, prize giving day and give, be the guest speaker and could I talk about my success?

I immediately remembered. My time at that school and the hideous day, that was always prize giving day when they get some old coger in, usually from the armed forces or the church, and he’d drone on for hours and how great he was. And I thought, I’m not doing that. But I said, I’ll come along, but only if I can talk about my failures.

I said, because if there’s any kids at that school who are looking to enter the arts, then they have to realize that, you know, the first thing you have to manage is how you cope with having failures. Absolutely. Uh, and so, so they, they couldn’t quite grasp what I was on about the teachers. But I did go along my, my ego would not allow me to turn that gig down.

Steve Cuden: Well, we’re gonna talk more about Bigger than the Beatles in a, in a bit, but, but you’ve incorporated even that concept of going back to your school at that’s in bigger than the Beatles as well, isn’t it?

Tim Quinn: It is, it is. ’cause uh, you mentioned before that I’ve written my autobiography really? I’ve written my autobiography twice

Steve Cuden: as a, almost like a Romana clef,

Tim Quinn: and I didn’t realize it until I was two thirds of the way through writing bigger than The Beatles, which is supposed to be the autobiography of this Liverpool guy who was 17 in 1957 when he picked up a guitar.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. And we

Tim Quinn: follow his career all the way through. To the present day when he is now in his eighties. And I was about two thirds of the way through writing the book. And we, we follow, you know, it’s every step of the way. So from the sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties, how he has to adapt and whatever.

And I was about two thirds of the way through when I suddenly realized, oh my God, this guy’s actually me. Now that might seem obvious as I’m the writer of the thing, but it hadn’t been obvious to me.

Steve Cuden: So you didn’t start, you didn’t start out writing it with yourself. Not at all

Tim Quinn: as the principal character?

No, not at all. In fact, my idea, the reason I’ve written this book is quite simple. At one point in, in our lives, Jane, my darling wife and I formed a management company for recording artists. And the reason we did that was because, um, because I’m the only guy to come outta Liverpool in the sixties who can’t play or sing a note.

Uh, but I adore music, uh, as indeed Jane, so. It was a natural sort of move for us into the music world, to work with artists that we adored and loved. And it proved to be quite successful. We proved to be quite successful at that. You know, I’ve been speaking about failures, but this, this was a, a wise move and, uh, thanks to that move I’m sitting in a house with a roof over my head.

Steve Cuden: How did you decide to go into that sort of world? What, what, what caused

Tim Quinn: it? Very simply because one of the most exciting publishing ventures that Jane and I worked on was a children’s magazine called Blue Moon. Okay. And it was sequels to fairytales what happened next to, um, snow White and, uh, Jack of the Beanstalk and so on, and all these characters.

Anyway, we adored it and it started being used in, um, literacy hour in schools, but not enough people were buying it. But our business sense went out the window. Our heart, we were led by our heart because we kept hearing from kids who loved it. And we kept it going way beyond the, the time that we should have canned it.

And I managed to lose every penny we’d made up to that point to lose our house as well. And this was at age 49, which isn’t a good time to start over. No, no, that’s not a good time to start over. It’s fine in your twenties, it’s fine. In your thirties, even in your forties, kind of up to a point. But not, not when you’re 49 going on 50.

Um, and this the next two years, so we’d been living gi up a beautiful house and whatever, lost everything. And we ended up living in a garden shed for the next two years. But I must qualified that because the garden shed was in a millionaire district outside London. And it was owned by a wonderful singer.

Um, and listeners, if, if you are an American, you haven’t heard of this woman, you will adore her. Please track her down on, uh, YouTube. Her name is Julie Felix. Julie Felix. She was American Mexican and she had had huge success in Britain back in the sixties, thanks to David Frost wonderful, wonderful artist.

And Jane and I collided with her one day and she had, uh, had an equally interesting life. But, um, due to the ridiculous state of the music business, she was, she had kind of hit hard times, and in many ways it was due to having a manager from hell who was useless. And I said, as much to Julie one day, uh, you’ve gotta find a new agent and manager.

And she turned on me. She said, well, look, if you think you can do better, do it yourself. First thing Jane and I did was to contact all our friends in the business and say, do you know a good agent or manager? And they all said the same thing. There’s no such thing. So Jane and I at that point thought, I wonder if we could be that good agent manager.

And that’s what got us into the business represent. So

Steve Cuden: Nece necessity is the mother of invention, isn’t

Tim Quinn: it? Just, uh, but representing Julie Felix. So we were off to a cracking stop because we had an artist who we believed in, you know, a hundred percent that helps. And loved, in fact loved. And so we went that extra mile.

And, and within a year, you know, we had her on 40 day tours of the uk and we were recording a, uh, wonderful double album called Starry-Eyed and Laughing, which was her take on Bob Dylan’s career. Julie is, she was a true sex bomb of the sixties. But her voice is, oh, it’s just sheer joy. Uh, so Julie Felix, uh, listeners, please have a look.

You will be blown away, I guarantee no matter what.

Steve Cuden: So you, you, that was part of your, you know,

Tim Quinn: us, your, that, that got us in and we were successful. So within a couple of years we had people coming to us, uh, uh, people like K Kiki d for example, um, asking us to take them on. And we also started, uh, bringing in artists to the UK from Australia, artists who were unknown over here, but we would put them on successful tours, um, of the uk.

So that was, it was enormous fun. And to go out on tour with them, you know, as roadie com manager, com agent, um, it was a blast. And, and it allowed us to work with some of the biggest names as well. ’cause we, we, occasionally we would do a charity show for some. Charity or other, and we’d bring it in. Well, in one case, uh, uh, John Paul Jones from Led Zeppelin, and then Bill Wyman and The Rhythm Kings.

So, you know, it was, uh, Steve Harley and Ney Rebel who brilliant, brilliant band. It was a, we were revitalized by the time we were in our early fifties. And um, it led to all sorts. And

Steve Cuden: were you still writing that whole time?

Tim Quinn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn’t stop that. But this took a lot of time because we wanted our company to be small.

We wanted it to be us, just us, Jane, and me. I, we didn’t want to be Warner Brothers. You know, I think there’s, there are pluses and minuses to having a small company, but there are pluses and minuses to being in a big company. ’cause you can get overlooked and whatever. So, you know, we, we did literally spend 24 hours a day working for our artists.

And it showed, um, so it was, uh, it was a joyous experience.

Steve Cuden: So it was, it was a labor of love for you,

Tim Quinn: total labor of love. And, you know, it’s tough. It’s kind of tough. Well, it’s not going down the pit is it? But it’s all worthwhile on the night when you’re standing at the side of the stage watching these amazing people close up, you know, and in, in pretty much every case, all the joy to work for.

Steve Cuden: How did doing that contribute to bigger than The Beatles?

Tim Quinn: Yeah, so the book, the book, well, I’ll tell you, it’s, it’s, um, after every gig we would celebrate and our artists would usually get slightly inebriated, whoever that was, not to name names, but we would start hearing some of the most amazing stories from, particularly from these artists who’d been around since the fifties and sixties.

And Jane and I would always come away saying, oh, isn’t it a drag that we’re so professional? We can’t tell these stories to anybody because we’re professional, aren’t we? And it wouldn’t be right. Uh, which of course is true. But as time went on and people started dying, uh, just because of age, uh, and I realized that my time on this planet is, is, is coming to a close, I sure.

I thought, you know, I don’t want these stories to die with me. And so the idea came of creating a story, creating a book, a novel. So a fiction if you like, ho ho, but to incorporate some of these wonderful tales that we had heard along the way into it. And so it came to pass that bigger than The Beatles was born.

And, uh, it kicks off with this guy picking up a guitar. Then forming a band in, in Liverpool in the early, in the late fifties.

Steve Cuden: The, the guy you’re talking about, his name is Mike Simon,

Tim Quinn: right? His name is Mike Simon. Yeah. Which I don’t understand that I have to say at this stage, I don’t understand why I call him Mike Simon, uh, because my former elder brother is called Mike Simon, and I can’t stand him.

So quite why I chose to call this guy who I like and who as it turned out is me after this guy that I cannot bear. Uh, go figure. The workings of the human mind are very

Steve Cuden: peculiar. There’s, there’s far more deep psychology in there than is there is. It’s above my pay grade.

Tim Quinn: No, there isn’t indeed. Either that or it can be summed up just by saying we’re all nuts.

Uh, which I suspect is true.

Steve Cuden: So, so do you think that Mike Simon, despite this being your brother, who you don’t care for, do you think that it’s you trying to, to work your own, being into the story, which you didn’t realize until late in the game anyway?

Tim Quinn: Why, Steve? That sounds crazy. How could that possibly be?

The, the quick answer to that is I have no idea. I have absolutely no idea. I need to be lying on a couch with Dr. Freud, I think to, to figure this one out.

Steve Cuden: Well, you’re not gonna get that here today, I’ll tell you that for sure.

Tim Quinn: No, it, it’s, it was interesting when I realized this and um, at, at, at that point as well, I realized that there’d been no romance really in this guy’s life.

Apart from the romance of celebrity, which is far from being romantic. Really? That’s

Steve Cuden: false romance. That’s not real. Well,

Tim Quinn: quite, quite, quite. It’s what passes for romance in a lot of people. Um, and so I thought, my gosh, well then I know the very girl for this, the very woman who would fill this spot. And, um, so I introduced into the book my own Wonder Woman, Jane Quinn, but uh, changed her name almost.

I kept her name as Jane, but changed the Quinn bit. And, um, it really worked well. It really worked well. It worked well because I was able to pull from Jane’s life because, you know, you were talking about my life, but there’s no comparison really to Jane’s life. Jane. Jane is a, a woman who, who grew up in, um, Indiana, in the Midwest Farm Girl.

And, uh, went on to do quite remarkable things in her life. Uh, not least marrying me. So, so she, there was a lot of copy there to pull from, um, character wise and personality wise. This amazing woman. I thought he’s gonna have an amazing woman in his life because, you know, a, a lot of my favorite pops and rock stars do, and I’m, I’m, I’m always interested in the backstory, sort of, well, okay, we know this person, but who’s the, well the woman behind the throne, I guess in this kind of case.

Uh, Dickens is a good example of that. You know, I, I fascinated by Charles Dickens’s wife. And then, um, his, um, girlfriend, you know, uh, and it’s a fascinating tale. Uh, and then of course, you know, John and Yoko, Paul and Linda, uh, by Anchor Jagger. Uh, I mean, there’s a story waiting to be told if ever there was one.

Steve Cuden: Well, Jagger’s got a number of those kinds of stories hanging around him.

Tim Quinn: Well, he does. He does, but not just one. Bianca in particular. Was was quite fascinating.

Steve Cuden: So, so you, you clearly, when you read the book, I mean I, the, the listeners may not know this, but unfortunately recently Jane passed away and she did, and I read much of your discussion about it online when I was, you know, ’cause I follow you online as well and you go through many experiences in the book that are, take us through her death, the character Jane Gatewood in the book, you take us through her, her death.

Did you find writing that to be cathartic for you to get it out?

Tim Quinn: No, nothing is cathartic. Uh, as far as Jane’s death goes, no. It’s, uh, it wasn’t a good idea. Um, wasn’t a good

Steve Cuden: idea. Why?

Tim Quinn: What wasn’t a good idea was the dying. Uh, it wasn’t a good idea. Oh,

Steve Cuden: definitely not.

Tim Quinn: I don’t believe it. I, you know, dying is the worst.

So, uh, I wasn’t gonna get beyond that.

Steve Cuden: And yet there’s nothing more universal in the human experience.

Tim Quinn: No, I know. It’s fascinating. That is quite fascinating, uh, in a way, and I guess, you know, I didn’t want to just dump a load of, uh, grief onto my readers because I’d like to think most of the things I’ve done in my life of had humor attached to them.

That’s a necessity as somebody putting on. And in Liverpool, you know, you

Steve Cuden: cel you celebrate her in the book, Tim, you don’t, well, exactly,

Tim Quinn: exactly that. E exactly. That, that, that was truly my intent, you know, that, uh, here is this amazing person. So of course she has to go into it. And I think she worked well.

And gave an extra dimension to the main character of the book, which is Mike Simon.

Steve Cuden: You even have a very short chapter in the book, maybe two thirds or further in, in which she’s already gone. And a book leaps off the shelf in the room. Is that something that actually happened to you?

Tim Quinn: It did. The month after Jane died.

Now I, I, I actually, Jane and I live in this old Victorian house here, uh, just outside of Liverpool. And if you walked in, you’d think you’re in a library ’cause we’ve got like 10,000 books and bookshelves and so on. So all sorts of books, uh, you know, books going way back to my childhood, books that I’ve written, books that she wrote, but books we’ve loved through our time.

So about three weeks after she died, one of those books chose to leap off the shelf in front of. And I picked it up and now I, you know, it could, had it been a copy of Old Curiosity Shop or, or, uh, the Connectica Yankee and King Arthur’s court, I would probably have thought no more about it. But it was a book, Jane Hadrick.

That’s wild. And this happened three times in different rooms on different shelves. Wow. And he set me thinking that I’ve always had bookshelves from when I was a kid. And this was the first time I’ve had books actually leap off the bookshelves because I, I know how to put books on bookshelves if I’ve learned one thing in this life.

It’s that. So it was one of those strange moments, uh, the fourth time. It was not a book Jane had written, but it was her most beloved book, which is Peter Pan, A copy of Peter Pan.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Tim Quinn: Uh, which is her favorite book of all time. Um, which says something about her and it’s kind of interesting. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Well, you know, it’s one thing, it’s one thing to have words leap off the page, but it’s another thing to have the book leap off the shelf.

That’s, that’s very interesting. Well, the page end

Tim Quinn: book, not only, not only did it leap off the shelf, but it actually hit me it hit you. So that was quite something. It was quite a leap. Did you take

Steve Cuden: that

Tim Quinn: as a message of some kind? Well, of course. And you know what? For 10 minutes I was slightly cheered. And then of course, after 10 minutes, you want, you need it again, and you need it more because I am like doubting Thomas or whatever his name was, who needs to thrust my hand into the, uh, wound in Christ’s side to prove that it’s him.

So, so as far as the whole thing being cathartic goes no, uh, not in the least because that nothing has the power to be that.

Steve Cuden: Well, some, some authors, you know, notoriously get rid of their own demons by, by writing them out, and then they disappear for them.

Tim Quinn: Yeah, no, I understand that. But this is one demon that I, I.

I can’t get rid of. I, it’s, it’s an angel actually. It, it’s, uh, an angel that, nor would I wanna, not that that means I, I’m happy in my grief, I’m not. It’s bloody horrible as anybody listening will be aware, you know, and, and I think most people who, who are all very sweet and very nice, and they do, they’ll say, oh, well, you know, give it time time’s a great healer.

Time is not a great healer whatsoever. When you’ve got, you know, when you’ve been lucky enough to have love like this. It’s, it’s far from being a great healer with every passing second. It’s torture. Um, I hesitate to use words like torture because people have been tortured, but it is, it’s, it’s a mental anguish, uh, no question to be, you see, for years I was Tim and Jane.

And I refuse to just be Tim. Now I am Tim and Jane, and that’s why Jane was in the book.

Steve Cuden: So Mike himself, eventually by the, I don’t wanna give anything away too much, but eventually he goes through the end of his life as well in the book and

Tim Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, it’s what he calls, you know, so he is going out thanks to his agent on, on this tour in his eighties, which is kind of absurd, if you know.

Now, of course, there are people who, who are doing this, uh, such as Ringo, such as Paul, and they’re fantastic. You know, even, uh, Bruce Springsteen’s getting up there, and they’re absolutely wonderful. Most people who reach their seventies are not in quite as good shape as those guys. Uh, you know, you are falling apart at the seams.

Uh, I certainly noticed it by the time I hit 68, the uhoh, you know, uh, what I used to be able to do in a flash was no longer possible. And certainly, you know, heading further into my seventies. Uh, but I’ll often have people say, oh, well look at Paul McCartney. Look at, yeah, yeah. Mind you, we don’t see him the day after the concert, do we?

Uh,

Steve Cuden: no. But I’ve seen, I’ve seen him put on that two and a half, three hour concert. I’ve seen it live and it is absolutely remarkable. Oh, totally. Totally. And he, he goes for two and a half or three hours and never takes a drink of water.

Tim Quinn: Well, he’s a remarkable man. And there I know, I know why he doesn’t take a drink of water, because he’ll

Steve Cuden: have to go, have to go

Tim Quinn: pee.

Yeah. Because that goes, I found that if I no longer drink after midday, I, I can actually sleep through the night, but if I drink after midday, I’m doomed. So getting up and down. So, so the joy of old age is,

Steve Cuden: so, so he, Mike realizes in the book that his game is up. You actually use that term. The game is up and he obviously you’re expressing that he feels that he’s finished.

But I’m questioning you, uh, Tim, that until death is certain a person’s, a creative person’s life is never really finished, is it?

Tim Quinn: Apparently not, because it was back in January. So, so I finished this book in January and. In February and March, we launched the Peace Wall, the Children’s Peace Wall at the Liverpool Beatles Museum.

I’m an ambassador for the Liverpool Beatles museum, by the way. And I really felt, you know what? I’m not gonna top this. This is a good thing to bow out on. But since that time, I seem to be doing stuff still, of course. So it’s still coming my way. I’m asked to give talks here and the on different aspects of my life and career and,

Steve Cuden: um, your brain doesn’t shut off.

You continue to think of these things.

Tim Quinn: Uh, it’s, it, it’s sort of flickering a bit. My brain. It’s, uh, so, well, yeah, it might not shut off completely, but it’s on the way off and I. Stop with projects that I was proud of and I’m proud of, bigger than the Beatles. And I’m proud of the Peace Wall, which ro and, uh, Peter at the museum have told me it’s a permanent exhibit.

Nice. Until there’s no wall, which means it’s a permanent exhibit. Um, the children’s peace wall at the liver, and it’s the last thing you see when you go through the museum. There’s like 10,000 Beatle artifacts in there. Beautiful, really personal artifacts connected to Pete and his time in the band. And then, um, the rest connected to John Paul, George Ringo, thanks to Neil Aspenal, who is rogue’s dad.

So it’s a fascinating experience, but you come out down this long, long wall. Uh, that’s called the Children’s Peace Wall. So it’s the final thing you see at the museum, and I think that really is a tip of the hat to the Beatles, whose message to the world was all you need is love and give peace of chance.

Indeed, the word is love. You know,

Steve Cuden: how many, how many songs did they, you know, produced that were about peace and love? There were many, many, many songs.

Tim Quinn: Quite, that’s it really. That’s my bible. You know, I’ve lived by that as much as I can, apart from the times when I’m really angry with people. But I pretty much try to, uh, remember all you need is love and to give peace a chance, uh, apart from it, some network.

Steve Cuden: So in the book, um, Mike reflects on an obituary written about him in The Guardian, which happens for celebrities where there are obituaries written in advance of their death. That’s a common practice. I’m just curious, have you reflected that when you time comes? Do you know how you want to be remembered?

Tim Quinn: No, I, I honestly don’t care. I couldn’t care less, you know? Uh, and I, I, seriously, I, I, I don’t care. I, I guess maybe occasionally I, occasionally I might have thought, it’s kind of interesting that these books and comics and things that are on YouTube from TV shows that I’ve been a part of will still be here long after I’ve gone, assuming that’s

Steve Cuden: the way I, that’s the way I look at the stuff I’ve turned out.

It’ll be here long after I’m gone.

Tim Quinn: Well, I find that kind of interesting, you know, particularly some of the interviews I’ve done with people, uh mm-hmm. Who, who interest me and fascinate me. So, yeah. I’m not, I I was gonna say I’m not ego driven, but that’s probably rubbish because the ego’s of course, in there.

Um, but no, when I started doing interviews, this is interviews for newspapers, uh, back when I was still in my teens. I was very keen to take myself outta the interview because I didn’t think that anybody would be interested in me. Why would they, you know, they’re tuning in because I’m interviewing somebody interesting.

Who’s in the news or whatever. Um, and so that was my natural inclination that creating a good interview. And it was the same when we did, uh, the South Bank show. That was the way that worked. That, you know, yeah, you’d be there interviewing these people, but you’d pluck yourself out, um, in the editing and, uh, just let them talk.

So as far as being remembered goes, no, I, I, you know, we we’re all, uh, I’m Aussie Mandi.

Steve Cuden: You, you’re, you’re interested in having your work be remembered, but not necessarily you.

Tim Quinn: No, I don’t even care if that’s, remember, I don’t. It’s been fun to work on and I’m, I’m particularly delighted where kids get it, you know, if, if some of the comic books and books that I’ve written are actually enjoyed by children.

Then, uh, I’m really happy about that. But simply because books have given me such a joy through my whole life, from my house. Mm-hmm. Nothing. So, um, so I, I’m

Steve Cuden: curious, when you were conceiving the book, did you know in advance what the book would be? Or were you writing it as was it coming to you as you were writing it?

Tim Quinn: I thought it would be wonderful to write of that, uh, of the music business through those years. From 1957. ’cause my memories are, you know, uh, I would’ve been, what, five years of age in 57, 6 years of age. But I remember it really well in that I remember the music that was hidden, and it was of course, rock and roll from the states.

It was Chuck Berry and uh, uh, little Richard and, uh, Elvis of course. Uh, but it was also a homegrown talent. Uh, a guy called Lonnie Donogan who, uh, created over here, what, what’s known as the skiffle phase. Mm-hmm. Which is truly what got most British artists into rock and roll. Uh, because there was a simplicity to what he did.

You know? And that’s not putting it down in any way whatsoever. Uh, you try doing something simple, it’s most difficult thing ever. But it allowed these guys to pick up guitars and follow his lead. And I remembered that well, and I thought, yeah, if I’d been a bit older then, you know, I’d have been doing exactly that, picking a guitar.

Attempting to get in on that scene, they wouldn’t have worked with me because I have no, no natural rhythm.

Steve Cuden: Didn’t the, didn’t. John Lennon and, and McCartney didn’t, they basically start out doing skiffle music.

Tim Quinn: Yeah. Yeah, they did. And, you know, it, it, it’s, it’s a wonderful, vibrant kind of music and it’s easy to play, apparently.

Mm-hmm. For everybody except myself. So, uh, so there you go. You know, I did buy a guitar eventually in 1963, and I bought a book to go with it called Play in a Day. The problem was the book didn’t tell me which day it would be that I play. Uh, so still, it’s still, I still, I still have a guitar in this office and I’m, I’m as useless today as I was back in 63 on it.

Uh, but it’s something I’ve accepted. I can’t dance and I can’t, I have no rhythm. No natural rhythm.

Steve Cuden: Yes. But you have, but you have a capacity for words. And that’s an art form under itself.

Tim Quinn: Yeah. It’s not the same as being a Beatle there.

Steve Cuden: Well, I don’t think there’s too much in the world that is like being a Beatle.

Tim Quinn: No, I don’t. And, and whenever I do think of the Beatles, I, I often think this, I think we got the better deal, we being the people, because I don’t, you know, the Beatles, it was work and Yeah. Yeah. Obviously they were having a lot of fun, certainly in the early days. Um, but I don’t think they had the amount of fun.

We got by going on that first day of sale and picking up a new Beatles album and reading every word on the back of it, and studying the picture on the front, and then listening to every track, you know, by that stage to them. Well, it was, it was their job. It was work. And, uh, uh, so they, they kind of missed, missed out on the Beatles.

I think by being a Beatle,

Steve Cuden: they were on the giving end, not the receiving end, and the receivers were all getting the benefit of what they were giving.

Tim Quinn: Absolutely. And anyway, that’s why the book’s called Bigger Than The Beatles, because it’s an absurd title because nothing can never, nothing

Steve Cuden: ever known, and nothing I think ever will w where did, so, uh, Mike’s partner, his writing partner and his playing partner is a guy named Richard mc McAdam.

Am I pronouncing that correct? Mccm

Tim Quinn: Richie McAdam. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: McAdam. And so where did these two characters come from? And

Tim Quinn: I Obviously you didn’t. Well, from my past now, uh, obviously Mike turned into me. In the way that I think and have thought for many, many years. Uh, slightly pissed off, slightly angry with the state of the world, uh, with the state of the music industry, with a lot of things really.

Um, Richard McDo was this beautiful boy, um, who was at my school. He looked like an English lord or something, like he should be Lord Byron or something. Uh, absolutely good. And all the girls swooned at his feet. And I just liked his name. I thought He is a great name, Richard McKenna. And he, he was, uh, he was kind of off his rocker in in many ways.

I remember being on a railway train going from, uh, where we lived in a suburb of Liverpool, into Liverpool, and he suddenly, he was reading a newspaper and then he took out a, uh, box of matches and he set the newspaper on fire in this carriage and. It, it caught light to the seating and, and the guy was kind of bonkers, but he was, how he was getting off on this.

Uh, and, and yet, you know, which just makes him sound horrible of course, or really stupid. But he was more than that. He was, um, well he was a real character, so I wanted to put him in. I didn’t put that scene in because I thought, well, it, it’s hard to make anybody like him If you, if you start off with that scene when he, and that’s back when he was about 14.

But his attitude was interesting and his, his contempt for our teachers, I enjoyed at our school because we had teachers who need, who deserve contempt. They were Irish Christian brothers who were, um, far from being Christian in my eyes, uh, second only to the Gestapo. So, so our contempt for them was, was shared.

Uh, so that’s where Richard came from. And, um, I don’t know if he’s still alive or not. I did see him a few years ago, bumped into him. He looked like death then, but, uh, I know he’ll have no problem with me using his name or indeed his personality in the book.

Steve Cuden: So as you were thinking about writing the book, did you have a certain audience in mind that you were heading toward?

Tim Quinn: Yeah, uh, and I suppose that audience would’ve been my generation, which probably isn’t that good an idea really, because we’re dying off. Um, but I would also like to think that anybody who’s into music, and I meet a lot of young people now who are into the music of. The fifties and the sixties.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm.

Tim Quinn: So I would like to think there’s hope that they will get a kick out of it.

Uh, because not only does it sort of play through the fifties and sixties, but it does go on to the seventies, eighties, and nineties, you know, and at one point they end up at Live Aid together with, uh, Bob Geldof and Bob Dylan. So, so we have these guest stars who pop up, up in the book, including the Beatles themselves, because they have to, you know, they have to meet these, well, you’ve got

Steve Cuden: many celebrities in the book.

You’ve got Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor, and Queen Elizabeth. Think of Edinburgh and Elvis, and, uh, you have all these, so again, all connected to me, all connected

Tim Quinn: to me in in what way? Elizabeth Taylor had to be in there. I was 15 years of age and I went down to London to see Hair The Musical, uh, this was in 1968.

I think, and hair was the big thing at that moment, you know, or one of the many big things that were out at that time. And, um, I went along to see that, but I went to another play in Shaftsbury Avenue the day after and I was sitting, waiting for the curtain to go up when, who should walk in, but Elizabeth Taylor and, uh, Richard Burton.

Wow. And, um, her son who was about 15 and the three of them glistened, they were at their peak as far as beauty goes. And they sat in the road directly in front of me. Whoa. And of course, all through the show, which was a very good show called 40 Years On. But the whole audience was, I was so conscious of the audience watching this trio, uh, and particularly Liz, Liz, Sean, more than anybody else, of course.

’cause she was bedecked in Jewels. And I don’t think before that point I’d given much thought to her. Other than that she was Cleopatra, but she outshone Cleopatra that night. It was fascinating to be that close to something, somebody who was so stunningly beautiful. It was like being in a fairytale for that few hours.

I, I sat behind her. Uh, interestingly what I took from it though was that, ’cause there was humor in the play and she had the dirtiest laugh I’ve ever heard from anybody. So that was kind of interesting.

Steve Cuden: Uh, she had a body laugh. She did indeed. Did you have to do much research on any of the characters in the book?

The, the actual real life characters or did you just know them all from your cultural experiences?

Tim Quinn: Well, I knew them from my cultural experience, so, you know, so obviously after that night at the theater. I went off and learned everything I could about Elizabeth Taylor because I, I’d fallen ahead over else in love with her, uh, as a 15-year-old, but alas, it was not to be, uh, for whatever reason.

Uh, and so it’s with pretty much everybody else that I’ve put into the book, I’ve had an interest in them, uh, one way or the other, right down to Lenny, the line who was a very famous ventriloquist dummy, um, back at the end of the fifties, uh, into the early sixties. And he even had his own TV series and he had The Beatles on as a guest one week, and um, indeed Mike Simon’s band before.

Change their name to the Dream daffodils. They go on this show, uh, with disastrous, uh, consequences. Uh, Lenny the Lion, but Lenny the Lion was, was huge. You know, bit like, um, what’s the event act in the States? That was big. Um, uh, McCarthy. What was It’s, uh, oh, Charlie

Steve Cuden: mcc. It’s uh, uh, Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy.

Tim Quinn: That’s the one. That’s the one, yeah. So, um, I had to put them in, ’cause again, it captures the period. It’s a very strange period as the Beatles came to fame. ’cause the musical or vaudeville was still big over here. And the Beatles were kind of a part of that in a way, you know, uh, uh, uh, and, and some of the Christmas shows they did over here, they were doing sketches.

Absolutely absurd, silly sketches, you know, uh, very vaudeville, very, uh, musical

Steve Cuden: rock and roll was sort of a still a new being born thing. It hadn’t become what it became.

Tim Quinn: Yeah. Well, anybody with any sense thought it was the root to becoming an all round performer, and, uh, that would involve getting into movies or TV or whatever, uh, ending up maybe as a TV presenter or something, you know, who knows?

It was a new world that that was being created before our eyes, so, so kind of interesting to see that, uh, I think 1963 is fascinating as far as the Beatles career goes before they hit America. As they take over the uk, you know, January the first, nobody’s heard of them outside Liverpool, but month, then cartoonists and newspapers are featuring them.

Suddenly bank, please, please me. Open that door to everything. Yeah, yeah. See, as I start talking about all of this, this is my passion and, and a love of mine in life, that period and time. So it was inevitable that I would write this book, a novel set through that period and beyond, and to try and figure out how anybody who went through that would then cope with the nonsense that we have to go through today in every way.

I mean, I, I just view this new century as being idiotic. We’re, we’re living through the age of Unreason.

Steve Cuden: Well, that, I think that’s a whole other conversation for another day. But, but, uh, how long did it take you to, from the inception that you’re gonna write this book, how long did it take to actually write it and finish it?

Tim Quinn: About five years, which is insane. Five years. There’s a reason for that. It’s because I reached a point in it where I couldn’t figure out how to end. And I didn’t wanna do the obvious, which is, oh, we just have him die ’cause he is old. I didn’t wanna do that. I needed something Sean. And then it was last November, my publisher, lovely woman, um,

Steve Cuden: Teddy, Darlene, Teddy darling.

Yeah. And in fact, Teddy is a guest on this show. She’ll proceed your show.

Tim Quinn: Oh, fantastic. Well, she, she is truly astonishing. And last November, uh, she came to me and said, uh, I wanna, I want a Tim Crim book for next year. And I was feeling particularly down at the period and I thought, oh God, I don’t wanna stop writing a book.

And then I thought, well, hang on, I could finish. I said, I’ve got a book that’s all but finished, but I can’t figure out the ending. And she said, well, I want it, uh, you’ve got till January to finish it. So. I came off and then I, I, I reread it and I thought, well, I like it. I like, I really like it, but where do I go to from here?

Uh, it was at that point I thought, well, I’m going to put Jane into the book as the love interest, but that still didn’t solve the problem of how to end it. And then much to my joy and much to the horror of some other people, there was a huge scandal that blew up in Great Britain that was covered by all the media.

And the media did their usual bit of shock and horror. It was all connected to sex and God knows what. And I looked at it and I thought, that’s exactly how we end this book. It’s perfect ending. Uh, and it’s the only way I can go out. Um, so I’m very thankful to this Paul Sod, who was done over by the press for idiotic reasons back, back at the end of last year.

’cause he gave me the, uh. Uh, I could use to, uh, uh, finish this book. So yeah, there’s, there’s luck for you. Uh, my luck and if not, is

Steve Cuden: well, a little bit, little bit of synchronicity and timing and all those synchronicity.

Tim Quinn: Well, that’s the word. That’s the word. And synchronicity has been with me through my whole life, no question.

Synchronicity, mm-hmm. Has, mm-hmm. You know, I’ve done seemingly impossible things, which there’s no way that, you know, I’ve been asked, did, did you have a plan? Absolutely. Never had a plan whatsoever. I was clueless as to how to create a plan, but one thing led to another. I knocked on a door and it would be open by somebody who, who would take me in and lead me on to greater things.

So very, very lucky, right through to the, so there I am working for the Saturday Evening Post Magazine, and I think, well, this is my opportunity to reach out to Stan Lee. And so that, you know, that week I wrote to Stan, I also wrote to Yoko Ono. Both responded positively and so it went, uh, right through to, you know, this, these last few years where, you know, I’ve got in with Best and Pete Pester running this most wonderful of Beatle museums in the heart of Liverpool.

We bumped into each other when we were both managing bands and we laughed a lot. Because of what we were being put through as managers. I bet. Um, so we had that common ground and that common ground has just grown through the years. And, uh, so, so

Steve Cuden: perhaps you’ll have a little more synchronicity because I think this book would make an excellent movie, if not a little mini series.

And Wow, I hope that perhaps you can get that, uh, to go, you’re

Tim Quinn: bang gone. Because, and I’m not being bigheaded or arrogant when I say this, but it would, it, it absolutely would. And I would imagine as a filmmaker, the joy of capturing each period from the fifties to the present, of course, it would be great.

Yeah, absolutely. And following a guy through that as an actor, could you imagine getting that role and having all the joys of being 17 years of age and picking up a guitar for the first time and getting that first gig and then. Balancing that against the sheer bloody misery of the stupidity of the music business today in so many ways.

That’s not to say there aren’t great wonders out there, because of course there are, but it’s not what it should be. You know, and I, I fear that new and upcoming artists, as the Beatles were way back then would find it much more difficult to be heard today.

Steve Cuden: Much more difficult.

Tim Quinn: Yeah. Which is crazy. As we have all this, these outlets,

Steve Cuden: there’s no real radio anymore.

They don’t really sell records anymore. It’s all streaming. So it’s very hard for people to catch fire.

Tim Quinn: Well, what’s missing is the people with heart and soul, you know, whether they’re DJs or whatever, who got it? Who figured this out and, you know, love jumping on it and, uh, shouting out about it so that we in turn would hear there’s a lot that’s missing.

Thanks to these credits who are running these businesses now.

Steve Cuden: So I’ve been having just a, a, just a fantastically fun conversation for just shy of an hour now with, uh, the author Tim Quinn. Uh, and, uh, we’re gonna wind the show down a little bit, and I’m just, you’ve told us all these incredible stories throughout the whole show, but I’m wondering if you have a story that you can share with us that’s either beyond what you’ve told us, weird, quirky, offbeat strange, or just plain funny.

Tim Quinn: Yeah, sure. Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna tell you a story about Jane, about my wife. Jane was, uh, grew, as I said, grew up in Indiana, a farm girl, and then, uh, something happened called 1964 February. She tuned in and was turned on and she dropped out at that minute, age, age 14. She was 14 at that point. Absolutely loved the Beatles.

And she recognized that there was more than just the Beatles, that there was this whole army, uh, this British invasion that was heading to America and indeed heading her way in Indianapolis because Indianapolis was key route on these tours. And so she saw this as an opportunity because she wanted to be a part of this wonder that she had seen before her eyes, thanks to um, ed Sullivan.

And so she called up a teen magazine in New York City and said, hello, my name’s Jane Gatewood. I’ve got an interview with those two English, um, pop stars, Peter and Gordon. Would you be interested? They’re coming to Indianapolis and I’ve, I’ve arranged that. I’ll be interviewing them. Would you be interested in running the interview?

To which of course the editor of this magazine, this being 64, said, yes, of course, because anything English, you know, they, they couldn’t wait to get it. So this allowed Jane to then contact Peter and Gordon’s management and say, I’m, uh, the correspondent with, uh, this magazine, uh, uh, teen Magazine and uh, like, would very much like to do an interview with your boys.

Said This 14-year-old girl just turned 14. Uh, can we make this happen? And, and of course the management said, yeah, you bet. Because they wanted Peter and Gordon to be in this team mag. So it was arranged that Jane would go and meet Peter and Gordon at their, their hotel. So off she sets, we have a photo of her on that very day, all done up hair combed down beetle style, and she got to the hotel.

And Peter met her in the foyer and said, okay, come on up to our room. We’ll do the interview up in our, our room. So up she goes, there’s Gordon, and Peter says, let’s do it on the bed. Okay. Yeah. So Jane gets on the bed back against the, uh, headboard. Uh, Gordon gets on one side of her, Peter on the other. She gets a notebook out.

Her first question that she ever asked, any pop or rock star is the one I’m about to tell you. But you have to know that Jane went on to do more interviews with pop and rock stars than anybody else on the planet through her life. And in fact, on her last day on this planet, she was still working on an interview.

Um, her first question, though, was slightly quirky as she turned to Peter and said, so tell me, is your sister Jane’s hair as read as yours? Because his sister, of course, was Jane Asher, who everybody was aware of because she was Paul McCartney’s girlfriend and blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, uh, he gave a nice answer.

The interview carried on, uh, some, uh, slightly more probing questions. Um, all very nice. And at the end of the interview she was saying, well, thank you so much. This has been fantastic. Afternoon. To which Gordon then said, well, we’d like you to stay, uh, because we’ve got something that we think you might enjoy.

And Jane said, oh, what’s that? Gordon said, I’m going to turn the TV on because Bonanza is about to start, and it’s followed with the wonderful world of Disney. So for the next two hours, Jane sat there with Peter and Gordon. And that, dear listeners, was the day my darling wife, age 14 entered the heady world of sex, drugs, and rock and roll by watching the Wonderful World of Disney and Bonanza.

I think that is one of the best stories ever because it kept, that’s, that’s great. The innocence of those times. Um, whereas far too often we just talk about the seediness behind the scenes and you know what, there was a certain amount of seediness, but there was also wonderful innocence as well at that moment in history.

Um, years later, Jane and I were working with Peter Rasha. Because he was launching the career of a wonderful singer called Iris Demand. And, um, he brought her over to the UK to theater. And, uh, we go up to, this is the first time we’ve talked to Peter. We go up to him and, uh, I say to him, oh, don’t you recognize Jane?

And he said, I don’t think so. No. Who, who? ’cause we are now sort of in our, well we’ve been around about 40, I guess, or around age 39 or 40. So I tell him the story. I said, well, you, you and Gordon, she interviewed you back when she was 14 in your hotel bedroom. To which he looked slightly shocked. And he said, oh, oh, oh, were we nice?

And Jane said, you were both beautiful gentleman. And he went, whew. I’m glad to hear it. So bless his heart. Uh, there, well, Peter, Peter, Peter,

Steve Cuden: Asher, am I Correct? Eventually went on to work with the Beatles at, at Apple?

Tim Quinn: Yeah. Yeah. Big, big story there. You know, we working at Apple as, uh, head of whatever Apple records, I think.

Steve Cuden: I think it was head of a and r or something like that. Well,

Tim Quinn: then he brought in, um, James Taylor, and he left Apple when Apple started collapsing and, uh, to become the manager of, uh, and producer of James Taylor. Uh, and then went on to Linda Ronstadt, I think as well. Uh, uh, many, many other names anyway, that he worked with.

So, uh, yeah, fantastic. Uh, but at the start of his career, of course, thanks to Jane, his sister. Knowing Paul McCartney, uh, Peter and Gordon were given, you know, well without Vote,

Steve Cuden: and he now does a really wonderful show on, on, uh, SiriusXM, on the Beatles channel about The Beatles. He does a show,

Tim Quinn: well, no better person, you know, because he was there throughout.

Yeah, sure. You know, there were two people who were in that envious position of seeing, you know, a few insiders. The Beatles chose, well, the people they brought in, I have to say, in most cases.

Steve Cuden: Well, and they probably had the, the choice of the crop is what they probably had too. They could bring in whoever they wanted at some point.

Tim Quinn: Well then, then there’s the wonderful Derek Taylor who, uh, you know, was, uh, true fifth Beatle in every respect and a very close dear friend of mine. And Jane’s, uh, and certainly again, reader, listeners, I, I think there’s about five books that are essential to anybody who loves The Beatles. I’m gonna add six now because I’m gonna say bigger than the Beatles should be on that list.

Um, but, but, uh, one of them is definitely, uh, by Derek Taylor, and it’s called as Time goes by, and it’s such an insider’s take on those, uh, years, those amazing years, uh, brilliantly written as only Derek could. He had such a R Mersey side style, uh, his humor. Brilliant, wonderful man.

Steve Cuden: Readers should check out that, and of course, bigger than the Beatles as well.

So last question for you today, Tim, in this marvelous chat that we’re having, you’ve given us huge great thoughts to think about, especially with your career and how it unfolded and went off in various directions. But do you have a solid piece of advice or a tip that you like to give to those in schools or wherever who come up to you and say, how do I do?

How do I get into the business? What do I do? What kind of a tip do you like to give those folks?

Tim Quinn: Uh, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, because I feel it would be slightly arrogant for somebody who got into the business back at the tail end of the sixties to think they know how to get into the business today, because it’s a completely different planet we’re living on.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. Um,

Tim Quinn: but I guess number one, yeah, tell you what. And this comes from when I was working for Marvel Comics and we would do comic conventions and people would come and bring their artwork and show, uh, uh, uh, and try and get work from Marvel. And inevitably just about everybody who showed me their work would stop by saying this, oh, uh, it’s not very good this, but, uh, uh, to which I would of course have to say, well, why are you showing at me then?

’cause if you don’t believe it’s good now, they actually probably felt it was as good as they could do. And they were humbled in my presence. Ho ho uh, or humbled because guess what? They’re now in front of somebody who’s working for Marvel Comics. So I kind of get that. But here is, here is the advice I would give anybody.

You’ve gotta believe in your stuff. You’ve really gotta believe in this stuff because if you don’t, nobody, why should anybody else believe in it? So you’ve gotta believe in it and it’s gotta almost cross that line into arrogance. So you’ve gotta believe in yourself that much. And if you don’t, then get a good agent, but you’ve got a problem there ’cause there aren’t any So, so, so, uh, much better.

If you believe in yourself, then you’ll be able to sell yourself, because that’s part of the game as well. You’ve gotta get in there and make people believe who you are, but you have to believe in who you are to begin with. Totally. I certainly did that when I first got into comics because I have a limited talent, a very limited talent.

But I teamed up with a guy called Dickie Howard, and Dickie is the most arrogant person I’ve ever met on the planet, and I kind of recognized this could be a good thing actually. You know? So we won’t describe ourselves as, yeah, we’re trying to break into comics, or we’re trying to do this, but we described ourselves as the best thing in comics.

You know, we were the best thing ever to do comic books, so it’s absurd, but you start believing that, and then assuming that you do actually believe in what you are creating and what you are writing, that you do have something, then it becomes natural. You do believe what you’re doing, and you do believe there’s an audience out there.

And of course, once you do get something out there and you hit that audience, then your belief in yourself goes through skyrockets. So it goes, but you do need to have that belief to begin with. Um, no mean feat. Uh, again, but, but you gotta believe, you gotta believe. Uh, and a lot of artists are these kind of people who just want to tinker and tinker with a piece of work.

Every artist I ever worked with always brought me their their illustrations and said, oh, I’m sorry Tim, but how did the deadline? Well, yeah, damn right, you’ve gotta hit the deadline. But when I looked at their work, it was fantastic. But of course, in their heads, they’re so close to it that they can’t see that they need a six month break from it.

And then they’ll come back and they’ll say, oh, actually it was all, wasn’t it? You know? So you gotta, you gotta get over that. You gotta get over yourself basically, and believe.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that’s extremely valuable advice because once you believe in yourself strongly enough to get others to even look at your work, and they don’t think that you’re being shy or coy or whatever, but in fact that you believe in your own work and that grows into a further audience, that is exactly what it takes to then further believe in yourself.

So it’s a self perpetuating circle.

Tim Quinn: It’s, I would also say don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Uh, hence my, I have many, many baskets,

Steve Cuden: extremely valuable advice

Tim Quinn: and many eggs. But you know, if you feel you can write well, there’s many areas that that can work. You know, from interviewing people. Through, through writing novels, through writing comic books, through writing features and newspapers and magazines.

Uh, just the, the, the world is way open, you know, uh, through writing movies. You know,

Steve Cuden: I made the mistake of having all my eggs in one basket at one time, and it really bit me, and so I, that’s never happened again. I’ve always had multiple things going on at the same time, so I think that’s fantastic advice.

Tim Quinn, this has been a fantastic hour plus on StoryBeat and folks, you should go out and get Bigger Than The Beatles by Tim Quinn. I think you’ll have a fantastic time reading it, especially if you like the sixties, rock and Roll, the Beatles, et cetera, et cetera. It’s well worth your time. Tim, thank you so much for your time, your energy, and especially for all your great wisdom. Just keep on keeping on, would you please?

Tim Quinn: My great wisdom, my God, thank you so much, Steve. It’s always a delight and thank you Kristin, in the background, the producer. So many, many thanks, both.

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you are listening to.

Your support helps us bring more great story beat episodes to you. StoryBeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, tune in and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden and may all your stories be unforgettable.