Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

Amy Genser: I always tell young artists to make sure that they have all the computer skills that they can possibly get. That they learn Photoshop, that they learn Illustrator, that they become great photographers and understand images and how they’re put together. And you’re going to need so many different kinds of images along the way. So that helps in documenting art and preparing art and figuring out what you’re going to do in a space. All of my graphic design skills have saved me. I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have those skills. I mean, I started off my career designing websites and learned coding. And while I don’t use that anymore, it helps me to be able to understand what’s happening with the materials, uh, that I put together to either accompany my work or to help my clients understand how my work is going to look in different spaces.

Announcer: This is StoryBeat with Steve Cuden. A podcast for the creative mind. Storybeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment. Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on Storybeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, the noted Connecticut artist Amy Gentzer, has been creating mixed media artwork for more than 20 years. She opened her studio after receiving her mfa in graphic design from the Rhode Island School of Design, where one class in paper making changed the arc of her career. Amy uses paper, paint and other materials to explore her fascination and obsession with texture, pattern and color. The natural world is a clear source for Amy’s work. Shes fascinated by the flow of water, the shape of beehives, and the organic irregularity of plants, flowers, rock formations, barnacles, moss, and seaweed. Her pieces bring to mind aerial landscape views, satellite imagery, and biological cellular processes. Amy’s work can be found in hospitals, corporate offices, private collections, and museums worldwide. Her latest project was developing a site specific installation for the Fuller Craft Museum in Brockton, Massachusetts. She had a vision of her work coming to life beyond the walls and becoming sculptural. Her multiple award winning installation shifting is a result of her exploration. I’ve seen a great deal of Amy’s work and can tell you it’s astonishing to look at, brimming with a vibrant kinetic energy and always breathtakingly beautiful. Be sure to check it out@amygenser.com. in the interest of full disclosure, Amy and I are related through the marriage of cousins we’ve known one another for more years than either of us will admit. So for me, this is an extraordinarily great joy to have my friend and relative, the tremendously gifted artist Amy Gentzer, as my guest on Storybeat today. Amy, welcome to the show.

Amy Genser: Thank you very much, Steve. I’m, um, thrilled to be here tonight, speaking to you.

Steve Cuden: Well, it’s a great pleasure to have you, really, truly is. So let’s go back in time just a little bit to where this all began. How old were you when you started to have an abiding interest in creating art?

Amy Genser: Um, as long as I can remember. I really don’t remember a time when I wasn’t making things by hand, just building with toys as a kid. And I always really got into the process of making things. I always loved it. I liked to do things with my hand. You know, I was that crazy kid who was always weaving the pot. Remember those potholders that you would weave them on the little loom? I mean, I would just do those over and over again when I was young, and I was always, like, making those friendship bracelets and beading, and I was always making stuff.

Steve Cuden: So your mom, Vicki, uh, is a fairly good maker of jewelry. She does all kinds of beautiful things. How important was the influence of her being a maker, a creator? How important was that to you?

Amy Genser: Uh, you know, I can’t imagine anything else. I just grew up watching her. I’m sure that it probably is the biggest influence, because I saw that not only as something that you do every day, or I almost every day, but also that you could do as a career. So my mom also would take me to different galleries and museums growing up, and I never really liked those that much. I always just would rather make stuff than look at stuff, usually. But I, um, do also remember going to visit some of her friends studios and thinking that that was really cool.

Steve Cuden: Did you know back then that you were going to do this for your whole life? Did he have a sense of it?

Amy Genser: Nope, not at all. Yeah. I never thought I would be a fine artist.

Steve Cuden: It was just fun for you.

Amy Genser: Yeah, it was just something I never really even thought about. It’s just what I did.

Steve Cuden: Have you lost that sense of fun, or is it still fun for you today?

Amy Genser: It’s still fun, yeah, I love it.

Steve Cuden: That’s really cool, isn’t it?

Amy Genser: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Do you think of being an artist as a kind of a calling? It’s something that you were called to do.

Amy Genser: I don’t really know, like, what that means.

Steve Cuden: Is it something that was so deeply in your soul, you had to do it. There was no choice.

Amy Genser: Well, I think in terms of creating, yes. That for some reason, I have this energy that has to come out through my hands in terms of feeling that I need to share that or that I have to do this as a career. No, definitely didn’t. But I do know that I have to make things.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s clearly obvious because you’ve made a lot of things, a lot of really, a lot of big, beautiful things. So that’s when you were in school as a kid, in grade school, in high school, and so on, you were still making things. You were creating art. And was there some point there where you thought, you know what? I need to take this to the next level. I need to go to a higher level of school for it?

Amy Genser: I thought about it, but like I said, I couldn’t imagine living life as a fine artist. I just. Watching my mom struggle and seeing the uncertainty and unpredictability of that kind of a career was a little scary to me. It was very important for me to always be able to be on my own, to support myself, and to just. I kind of an ambitious person and really wanted to achieve in my field, and I didn’t know if I could do that. I also never felt that I really had anything to say as a fine artist, knew what to make. Like, if you gave me an assignment, I could slay it, right? I would always take art classes and do really well. But when it came to, all right, go get my sketchbook and work on my own or build something on my own, I never knew what to make. If I was building something, I would, you know, whether it was with, when I was a kid, as blocks or building sculptures with wood, that was fine, as long as it was, I guess, abstract. But if I had to do something that came from an idea or a concept, a lot of times it was tough if it was self generated. On the other hand, I eventually worked as a graphic designer, and that was perfect because it was literally being given an assignment, and then you would have to visually translate it.

Steve Cuden: So you’re a task oriented person. When you’re given a task, you go do the task.

Amy Genser: Yep.

Steve Cuden: Would you say you’ve become more self driven over time, or is it still task oriented for you?

Amy Genser: A little of both.

Steve Cuden: A little of both?

Amy Genser: I would say both? Yeah.

Steve Cuden: So if you didn’t have, uh, a commission or an assignment, or you didn’t have something that was on your plate, would you then think, I’ve got to go do something.

Amy Genser: Anyway, at this point, yes.

Steve Cuden: At this point, yes. So that’s become. It’s become part of your heart and soul. Totally.

Amy Genser: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: So you had this epiphany when you were at the Rhode island school of Design, or RISD, as people call it, when you had this epiphany, what was going on? You were in a paper making class. Describe what happened.

Amy Genser: Um, it was like going back to being a kid when I was just making things by hand without worrying about what message I was conveying. I could just focus in on the process and then let the, uh, product develop from the process, just give into that kind of, like, get my cerebral self out of it and just. Just go.

Steve Cuden: I think that’s really important for art and artists that you hear repeatedly through varying interviews I’ve done and through reading that artists who are successful tend to just let the work keep coming through them.

Amy Genser: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Is that the way it is for you?

Amy Genser: Yeah. When I’m really into it, definitely. Especially now. Even when I don’t have an assignment, I find myself getting cranky when I haven’t worked in a while because it quiets my mind. It’s really, you know, people talk about the flow or that my mind is quiet, and I can really just be with the work and kind of like a little mental vacation. Very relaxing.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s a neat thing when that happens, because then you can get into what I call the zone. When I’m working on my own art, which is writing, I, uh, can get into a zone, and time just stops.

Amy Genser: I feel so bad if people don’t have that. Like, if you’re describing it and they don’t know what you’re talking about. I feel so bad for them. Like, I can’t imagine. Right? Like, it must be so exhausting.

Steve Cuden: It is exhausting because they’re probably doing things they don’t want to do, so that is exhausting. There’s no doubt about that. So what was it at risd that you learned that you’re still using to this day? What were the fundamentals that really have stuck with you?

Amy Genser: My degrees in graphic design, and I had originally gone to get my masters so that I could be a design professor. Working in the corporate world wasn’t such a great fit for me, and I thought, all right, so I’ll go into academia. I always like working with students and critiques and thought that that could be fun. Always liked being in art school, so. But while I was there, like I said, I was. Really got into the form of what I was doing much more than the messaging. It really was that one professor of mine, Janden Baker, her classes, that kind of, I was able to springboard from. She taught not only the paper making class, but a bookmaking class and the book arts. And I loved that, being able to manipulate the forms of the books with the story I was telling. And it was just a much more handmade approach than doing logos or corporate identity systems or annual reports on the computer. So it reminded me of how much I loved that, because I really hadn’t done that in, uh, a long time, because in college, I studied history, and I minored in graphic design, but I hadn’t really made anything in a long time. So it was coming back to that and reminding me of how much I loved that process. So I’m so grateful that I took that class, that I had that experience, and that I had the support of my family and was. And was brave enough myself to be able to do it and to try it.

Steve Cuden: Well, sure. And it is very important and really wonderful that your family did support you, because it’s an insecure profession that you’ve gone into, and you might have gone into it and had no success at all, or at least no success for a long time. And that’s a very big challenge, and a lot of families might have dissuaded you said, why don’t you become a teacher? Why don’t you do that? Because that’s more steady and stable. But you needed to do what you needed to do. So who are the artists that have influenced you? Aside from Jan baker, who else have you looked to over time and thought, yeah, this is what I really admire and wish to sort of follow in those footsteps.

Amy Genser: Sure. A lot of women, textile fiber artists, like, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the, uh, work of Olga de Amaralhouse. I’m not sure, actually sure how to pronounce that, but she’s from South America, and she just weaves these amazing, beautiful forms, wall hangings, mostly in sculptures, and uses a lot of gold colors. Just beautiful, just visually breathtaking. I like the work of Magdalena Abakanowitz, who’s a sculptor as well as a fiber artist, or was. She’s passed away, but her work, too, very monumental in scale.

Steve Cuden: Um, as is a lot of yours.

Amy Genser: Yes. I really love the sense of an overpowering kind of presence of the work. And, um, from my work, too, it’s a lot about the micro versus the macro. So working with a very tiny module of paper that I do these paper pieces, I work with. I can really pack a punch by creating a large piece, and you see all these teeny, tiny pieces that create the whole.

Steve Cuden: Well, there’s no question that I know. When I’m in a room with your artwork, it’s hard not to look at the art. It is, um, a great presence. It has energy. The energy leaps off the wall at you. So, uh, what you’re talking about is true. Do you think of yourself, I know you mentioned storytelling a moment ago. Do you think of yourself as telling stories with your art?

Amy Genser: No, no, I just. Yeah, I just. I’m, um, not that deep, you know? I just, like, see, I always say, like, I see all these things. I see all these images and experience nature and the world around me, and it kind of all gets. I take it all in through all my senses, and I always say it gets, like, blended up in my brain and then comes out some weird recipe in my work.

Steve Cuden: Is it emotional?

Amy Genser: No, I don’t even, uh, not emotional. It just. It’s intuitive. So the making of it is intuitive.

Steve Cuden: It has a visceral quality to it, though. It gets you in the guts, so it must touch you as you’re making it in some way.

Amy Genser: It just soothes me. I just enjoy the process. Yeah, right.

Steve Cuden: So what for you then makes a great image. Great. Why does this thing work and this one doesn’t? How do you know that?

Amy Genser: Well, you mean for it to work or not work for me? Because sometimes someone else may think it works.

Steve Cuden: And isn’t that true for all art, though? That whatever you produce, it’s really then becomes the viewer’s art in the sense that it’s their reaction to it. It’s already your. It’s out of your hands and into theirs. But I’m saying, what then makes your work for you? Oh, this one’s finished. This is great. I’m happy with it. What makes it great versus I’m not really there yet.

Amy Genser: Purely intuitive?

Steve Cuden: Purely intuitive. Just pure guts.

Amy Genser: Pure guts. If I keep, uh, looking at it, I know something’s not right. It’s like it feels itchy, almost like it just kind of, like in my. In my subconscious, like, you know, or on the side there. So I’ll know I have to go back to something and rework it. For that reason, I can’t live with my own work in my home. It’s because it’s very active and alive to me. I will constantly want to revisit it and edit and redo it. I mean, if you think about other artists, like, I can’t imagine a writer or really whatever someone does, if they have to have their work on the walls, what they do all day long. Can you relax?

Steve Cuden: Uh, probably not. Because you’re always on with it. Do you ever go into a place where you’ve done an installation or in someone’s home that has it, and then you think to yourself, uh, I need to fix that? No, no. Once it’s done and out, it’s out. You let it go? I think that’s really good.

Amy Genser: When I go back years later, though, and sometimes I’ll see an installation or in a client’s home, then I do want to rework it, but I don’t live with it, so I can leave and then not be activated by my response to their work.

Steve Cuden: Well, you know, Stephen Sondheim is a good example of a great artist. Decades after west side story came out, he was still tinkering with it when they would have revivals. He would ask to make changes, like.

Amy Genser: A live document there, though, if he has. Right. It is something that can be. I mean, I’d have to ask you, Steve, can I have my piece back? I’d like to rework it a little bit. I was thinking about it and. Right. Yeah. It is an interesting concept, though. And I actually have done that with one piece, my friend, my neighbor’s piece, and I took it back and reworked it a little bit.

Steve Cuden: Really?

Amy Genser: Because I would see it all the time. I would go into their house and then see it, and I had to.

Steve Cuden: Were they okay with the change?

Amy Genser: Oh, yeah, they’re fine. They’re like, go for it. And not everybody would say that.

Steve Cuden: No, that’s right. Especially someone who wasn’t your neighbor. If it was someone who admired your work, you didn’t know them. They purchased your work, took it to their home, then you visited their home years later. They might object to you saying, can I have that back for a little while?

Amy Genser: Yeah, that would probably be odd.

Steve Cuden: It would be extremely odd. How long do you think it was as you were going along before you thought to yourself, you know what? I am pretty decent at this. I’m good enough to actually put this out in the world. Was it right after school or did it?

Amy Genser: I’ll let you know when I feel.

Steve Cuden: That I am the same way. I get it. You’re never quite there. I think that’s a good thing. It’s really all about the journey, isn’t it? It’s more about the.

Amy Genser: It’s about the process. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Do you think of your work as paintings, sculptures, some combination? Do you think of it in some genre, form, or nothing.

Amy Genser: Um, I would just say, like, mixed media, sculptural, dimensional, textural, colorful work, I don’t really qualify it. Um, if I do apply to a show or something, if fyber art is a medium, I’ll go under that. So then it would be, I guess, technically a textile, but I don’t really refer to it as a textile. It’s kind of quirky in its definition of what I do, because it is like a collage, but there’s painting involved and.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, I don’t know, but because you use a lot of paper and.

Amy Genser: Mhm.

Steve Cuden: You categorize it as fiber in some way. I didn’t even think of it that way until you just said it to me. I didn’t think of your work as being fiber based, but I guess it is.

Amy Genser: Yeah. And paper is now, it’s usually not an option for, you know, you hear paper art, you’re like, what is that? Is that a drawing? It’s drawings on paper, and. Or they’ll think of paper cuts. So, yeah, kind of a visual definition. You just kind of have to see it and say, okay, that’s what it is.

Steve Cuden: Do you have a visual image in your head of what you’re doing before you start to work?

Amy Genser: I do usually start with an image or a little bit of a plan or an inspiration, whether it’s self generated or something that a client needs in terms of a particular palette or composition, I do usually have, like, a vision of it in my head or a sketch or something. But inevitably, what happens is that while I’m working on the piece, it completely changes and evolves from there. I always say that it’s like creating a puzzle where I don’t know the final picture until I see it. And much like a painter would be mixing paints while they’re working to get the right colors, I layer my paper colors on top of each other to then blend them and create my own palette. So I’m, um, making the pieces of this puzzle as I’m going along, if that makes any sense.

Steve Cuden: It does. And you’re also then figuring out what the final picture will be?

Amy Genser: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: So you don’t enter into the process already knowing what the end result is supposed to look like?

Amy Genser: Nope.

Steve Cuden: So is it, uh, is it frequently or always a surprise when you’re there?

Amy Genser: Well, no. I’ve been doing it long enough that I pretty much can build what I’m imagining or a client is imagining. I kind of do know what it looks like.

Steve Cuden: You have a pretty good clue. Once you start, you’re then heading toward some kind of a finish line, even though you don’t know what the exact.

Amy Genser: End is going to be exactly. But I can always say, like, okay, I know how long this race is going to take to run by now, even if I don’t know exactly what it’s going to, like, look like.

Steve Cuden: Do you usually know how long it’s going to take to do a piece?

Amy Genser: Um, more or less, yeah, because I have to make my schedule and budget my time and do that whole business side management of an art career.

Steve Cuden: So you like a deadline, don’t you?

Amy Genser: Well, yes and no. Depends. And I give them to myself also, because then I’m able to prioritize my work and organize it.

Steve Cuden: And I would think what you do really requires a good deal of organization because of all the many pieces and parts that go into it. It’s not just canvas and paint and brushes. There’s a whole lot more that goes into it. Uh, and so if you were disorganized, that might be really hard to do, wouldn’t it?

Amy Genser: Yes, indeed. It is a very process driven art. So there are definitely steps that I have to go on. Uh, go up one by one, so where it can happen all out of order.

Steve Cuden: So you actually know the order. You’re going to do things then?

Amy Genser: Yes, although it’s changed over the years. I used to paint the background of a substrate before going and building my paper construction composition on top of that. Now I, and I would put the paper pieces right down onto my substrate. I would glue it down. Now I do like, a little bit of painting before I add the paper pieces, but then I rework my composition and I paint after. So that’s been new. And also since I did start working sculpturally and experimenting with different kinds of materials, building materials, I stumbled across this mesh. It’s like, used you. You know, you’ve placing this. It’s used a lot in stage design. It’s like a very thin, it’s called scrim.

Steve Cuden: And you can. And you can light one side of it and make it opaque, and you can light from behind it and make it transparent.

Amy Genser: Um, maybe it’s not that, but I don’t think it’s different if you shine light on it from either side, because you can see right through this.

Steve Cuden: You can see through a front lit or backlit. Yes, I see. Okay, well, maybe it isn’t scrim, but that’s what scrim does. They use scrim in stage shows. They paint on it, and they drop it in, and it looks like a drop. And if it’s frontlit, you can’t see through it. Uh, but when they light from behind, suddenly you’re seeing into where it is. Then the scrim goes up, and there’s your scene. It’s really a common.

Amy Genser: That’s what that is. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Yeah.

Amy Genser: So, yeah, I would try that. That could actually be really cool.

Steve Cuden: Oh, it would be really cool, yeah.

Amy Genser: I love experimenting with new materials.

Steve Cuden: Aside from paper, what substrates do you use? What are the materials you use?

Amy Genser: I use, depending on the project, I can put all different kinds of things in there. Sometimes I’ll add metal, sometimes wood. Sometimes I’ll use, like, crushed up glass or pyrite to give it a little shimmer here and there. Little surprises of something that glistens that you don’t catch until you’ve really been studying a piece. Like, to have multiple layers to my work of discovery so that it doesn’t get boring.

Steve Cuden: Boring for you or the viewer?

Amy Genser: The viewer, and me too. Yeah. You know, I always want to shake it up a little bit.

Steve Cuden: You give yourself something new to look at and deal with. It gives you a challenge.

Amy Genser: Exactly. Yep.

Steve Cuden: Let’s talk about the actual pieces or how you put it together. When you say you glue paper onto a substrate, what are the substrates? Is it. It’s not canvas, is it. It’s nothing. Is it masonite? Is it wood? What are your substrates?

Amy Genser: So I used to use canvas, but I wasn’t really happy with its ability to stay, to really stay firm over time. So now I use, it’s called pvc or sintra. It’s a sheet of basically plastic. It’s the material that pipes are created from and just flattened. So it’s about 4 mm thick. And then I have that. I don’t build these, by the way. I have a really great fabricator who does them professionally because it wouldn’t come out as perfect if I made it. So then they glue and, like, hammer it into the, uh, wood frame. So you don’t see the wood. It’s just behind it. But that really keeps it hard and in place, and it’s not going to bend or warp at all. So I like that to paint on as well as to build on. It’s just a great material, but it’s.

Steve Cuden: Easy to, for them to manipulate it. Yes.

Amy Genser: For the builder to manipulate it.

Steve Cuden: The builder, right?

Amy Genser: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it comes in, like, a big sheet form, so they can just.

Steve Cuden: Do they cut it somehow?

Amy Genser: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I cut it myself. Too. Sometimes I won’t have it attached to a wood frame because sometimes it’ll just be more of, like, a flatter piece that then gets framed on its own. And I’ll just use the pvc sheet. You know, I buy it from a, uh, plastic wholesaler.

Steve Cuden: A wholesaler.

Amy Genser: A wholesaler near us. And I’ll just buy sheets and then cut it down.

Steve Cuden: So you also then shape it as opposed to somebody building it for you. You also can do that?

Amy Genser: Yeah, definitely.

Steve Cuden: And then that substrate is very accepting of glue that will then take whatever you’re putting on top of it.

Amy Genser: Yep. And lately I’ve been working on that mesh that I was talking about that I build the installation from working in sculptural pieces, and that way I can move the pieces around like real puzzle pieces, almost like I’ll do a section and figure out if I want a certain color somewhere. I can kind of test it out and try it in different places. Whereas before, I really kind of had to commit when I was adhering the paper modules right onto the substrate. This is a little more forgiving. I also find that it’s a little more, um, secure the paper, attaching it to this mesh, it really soaks it up, and it’s on there tight. I also, when I finish a piece, I layer it with multiple coats of varnish so that it protects it not only from the light, but dust. And if you touch it, it actually feels very hard. You wouldn’t even know it’s paper. You can see the striations in the concentric circles of my pieces in the paper, but other than that, it feels hard, almost like. Yeah. Ceramic or plastic.

Steve Cuden: How do you apply the varnish?

Amy Genser: Brush?

Steve Cuden: With a brush.

Amy Genser: A mop brush. Yep.

Steve Cuden: That must take quite some time.

Amy Genser: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luckily, um, I have an amazing assistant, and she’s really patient with things like that, so she does a much better job than I do because I just slop it on there, and she’s very careful.

Steve Cuden: So prior to this more recent process and more back in the beginning, it was kind of. I’m going to use, uh, some kind of an equation here, but I’m probably wrong, uh, that it’s almost like doing watercolor, where you have to layer it properly or you’ve ruined it because you’re building it up.

Amy Genser: Not that unforgiving, because I could always take the pieces off, and I’ve done that many times, just taken off large sections. So it’s a pain in the butt, but I could still make changes.

Steve Cuden: All right, so what kind of paper do you use? What have you used all along?

Amy Genser: Um, all different kinds from all over the world. Um, I started off early in my career using papers that I made, but quickly realized that that was a whole art form in its own and takes so long, and the product was so precious that I didn’t want to manipulate it or take away any of its great qualities by folding it and hiding part of it. So now I primarily use a mulberry paper from the mulberry bush. It’s created from the branches of the mulberry tree, and they regenerate. So I always feel better about that, using up all this paper. And primarily, it’s from Thailand, although a lot of papers are also from Japan or Nepal. They have that very fibrous quality to them. They’re not handmade papers. These papers are machine made, but. But they’re still very beautiful and look fibrous. So it’s pretty easy for me to find what I want in terms of the texture of the paper and even color. I have all different kinds of colors of paper, but if I can’t find a solution in the materials that I have, I’ll use paint and just make the pieces the colors I want on my own.

Steve Cuden: And is that, uh, that’s pretty common for you to paint on these pieces?

Amy Genser: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: But you also have raw paper where it’s not. So you take paper just for the listeners who don’t know what we’re talking about at the moment, you take paper and roll up, I want to say pieces of it. How do you. How do you describe what you do with the paper?

Amy Genser: Yeah, it’s really hard to describe this visual thing with words, this process. But I take long sheets of paper. So figure about twelve inches wide and about 36 inches long, and I roll it up. I use a bamboo, uh, skewer. So very high tech here. I put it in, like, at the beginning of the paper. And what I’ll do is roll one color at a time and then add on another color. So you end up getting rings of concentric colors and, like, looking at the.

Steve Cuden: Uh, at a cut log where you’re seeing the concentric rings, but you’re getting multiple colors throughout in these striations.

Amy Genser: Exactly. And sometimes I’ll roll the papers multiple colors at one time so that they blend. Yeah. And then, like a tree with a cross section, I’ll cut it, and usually about like, a half an inch tall. The piece will be the little circle module. You know, picture like a little piece of log.

Steve Cuden: Have you glued the paper together so that it stays. Or how do you keep it together.

Amy Genser: For when I get to the end of it? Yeah, I glue the end of it so that it stays in the roll.

Steve Cuden: In the roll. Otherwise it would just unravel, right?

Amy Genser: Yep. Exactly. Yeah. So you believe me? Sometimes it does.

Steve Cuden: You don’t put glue on the paper and roll it up in glue. It’s just the end.

Amy Genser: Yeah, just the end. Just to seal it up.

Steve Cuden: All right. And then you’re able to take these, you call them modules. I think that’s an interesting way of thinking about it. You take these little pieces that you’ve made, the modules, and you then lay it out and try to figure, uh, out a the puzzle pieces at that point.

Amy Genser: Yes, exactly. And I’ll end up cutting the pieces apart and moving them all around until playing with the pieces until they look good together.

Steve Cuden: I’m going to assume that once you’ve rolled paper together, it’s fairly thick. It doesn’t. You can’t just take a normal scissors and cut it, can you?

Amy Genser: No, no. Depending. Well, sometimes you can if they’re little, tiny rolls. My rolls are all different sizes, so. Yeah, the baby ones, absolutely. You can use scissors, although your hand might get really sore. But I will use anything from pruning shears. I have, uh, this little setup in my studio. It’s a pruning shears that I’ve rigged with a, uh, vise on a wood table. So I can just kind of slice away at them that way. Just like a big stick right in the yard. Or I have a hydraulic electric paper cutter guillotine. So that is a huge, long razor blade, basically, that chops through multiple layers of layers of paper at once and allows me to expedite and streamline my process.

Steve Cuden: But this is something that is mechanical, that uses electricity. This is not. You’re not hand driving it?

Amy Genser: The guillotine, no.

Steve Cuden: Yes.

Amy Genser: No. But the pruning shears, definitely handmade.

Steve Cuden: So it’s not like what I’m trying to say. It’s not like a typical classroom paper cutter.

Amy Genser: No, no, no, no. That wouldn’t work. It would just make the paper bend.

Steve Cuden: And it would probably, what? Make it all gnarly on the ends as well?

Amy Genser: Yeah. Ragged, ragged, sharp cut. Ah.

Steve Cuden: And so when you, these strips that you start with, do you cut them to size first, or do you always use sort of a similar size and then cut the rolls down?

Amy Genser: You mean to. When I’m making the pieces, when I roll them up, I usually start with the same size.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, the same size. So you’re buying stacks of the same piece of size of paper?

Amy Genser: No, I have to buy larger pieces of paper, and then I cut it down to what works for me process wise.

Steve Cuden: Are you able to tell us what kind of glue you use? Is it’s not white paper glue, is it? Or what do you use?

Amy Genser: Um, am I able. Yes. Will I.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s. I’m saying, is it a secret? If it is, don’t tell us. But is it something you can describe or not? Is it something special? Is it proprietary?

Amy Genser: It is not. It’s actually the glue that I use to adhere the pieces is a lock type product called power grab, and it’s used in construction, and it’s just super, super strong and acid free, archival and works really well.

Steve Cuden: Yeah. That’s amazing. So is it kind of like superglue?

Amy Genser: No, it’s very thick.

Steve Cuden: It’s thick.

Amy Genser: It’s like a paste. Yep. Usually it comes in one of those, like a, like a caulk almost. Usually they come in those, kind of use a caulk gun to get it out, but I buy big gallons of it and just kind of spoon it out.

Steve Cuden: And it’s easy to paint on, I assume the glue. Yes.

Amy Genser: Good. If I want to. But, you know, I try to make it so that you don’t really see the glue.

Steve Cuden: You can’t see the glue. That was my question. So you can’t see the glue. Well, then you don’t need to worry about that. Do you have, uh, tricks for finding your muse, so to speak? Do you take. I know you’re a photographer as well. Do you take a lot of pictures as inspiration for the works you’re doing?

Amy Genser: I do, yeah, I definitely do. And I guess it’s kind of odd, too, that I don’t always then look at the photos for my inspiration. I take them, and then I just have them. And I had this experience the other night where I had taken these images of sand at the beach and all the channels that the water created in these, like, river like forms almost. And I was going through my portfolio for. For something and was looking at the images of these pieces I made, and it really looked like those photographs, but I didn’t make that on purpose. Kind of like, there’s a visual language that I respond to, I guess. And then I kind of like, you.

Steve Cuden: Absorbed it through taking the photo and then it was in your psyche.

Amy Genser: Yep.

Steve Cuden: That’s really terrific. And I think it’s not uncommon for artists to absorb all kinds of things and not know where the inspiration came from. After a while. But your work has a similar quality to it all through. Uh, you’re not doing a portraiture one day, you’re not doing landscape, uh, of the desert one day. Your work has a similar quality to it all the way through. So that your inspiration for me always seems like it comes from the sea, from the ocean. It comes from more than that, doesn’t it?

Amy Genser: Definitely, yeah. Any kind of a biological process I’m really into, like, that’s created out of cells, something that’s flowing, things that are moving again, like the micro to the macro, things that have lots of teeny tiny parts. I like. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: So you don’t, you don’t you work from the photos, do you? The photos just become a memory for you?

Amy Genser: Yeah, sometimes I work from the photos. Like, I’ll have them up in my studio. I’ll put up images. I will. But not like a static image that I’m trying to recreate, if you know what I mean. Does that make sense?

Steve Cuden: No. Explain what you mean by not static image.

Amy Genser: Like, like, if I’m looking at a photograph, right, and it’s, I’ll call it a static image, okay. If I’m trying to make something, that is the composition of the photograph I have and the colors and the, if I try to make it, it won’t look like that. If I do, I don’t think it would have that same energy, like you mentioned, where I’m just letting the work drive itself. Otherwise, it’s kind of static. It’s just there’s no room to play with it, that it has to be a certain thing of the image that I saw, which is, I guess, a lot of the reason why I like abstract work, too. You do not want to see my portrait or my landscape drawing because they will not be good. You know, a lot of times people say I’m not a good artist. I can’t draw. I can’t draw. I mean, a little, but not great.

Steve Cuden: So you don’t ever sketch your works in advance? You don’t think?

Amy Genser: Sometimes I do. Sometimes, definitely. But it changes throughout the process. Like I said, it never. You know what? My sketches are more of a starting point, if that makes sense.

Steve Cuden: I don’t know if I’m, um, sure it’s not exactly the same, but you’re making me think of Frank Gehry, the architect, where he does these sketches that are very free form and very loose. They’re not at all what the ultimate architecture is going to look like, but it gives you a sense of the space and of the dimension of it.

Amy Genser: Yeah, maybe the core feeling of that piece or building. Yes.

Steve Cuden: But you’re not literally drawing what you’re ultimately going to build. No, no, because you have to find it in the process. You already said that.

Amy Genser: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Steve Cuden: So you create very interesting titles for your works. I find them interesting. Uh, I’m going to list a few of them. Coiled terrain, intertwined, flow, confluence, neptune, synapse and recently shifting. How do you come up with your titles? Where does that come from?

Amy Genser: I don’t know. Just, again, things in nature or scientific processes, or did they just hit you.

Steve Cuden: As you’re looking at the work?

Amy Genser: Pretty much. Or I think about what I’m trying to convey. Or, for example, the piece that you mentioned, confluence piece, lives in the lobby of the University of Iowa Health center in Iowa City. And it’s right. You go up in elevator and it’s right there and it’s, uh, 6ft tall by 14ft wide.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Amy Genser: So it’s a pretty big piece and it’s very well lit, so it’s very bright, I will say. And the concept of that piece, part of it was Iowa City has much like Pittsburgh, a bunch of rivers that meet in the city and then flow out from there. It’s also the university, a place where ideas are exchanged, where lots of people from different backgrounds, from all over the world, and working in different disciplines, come and collaborate also, it is in this medical building, but it’s a teaching, uh, facility as well. So I wanted to convey the idea of this meeting place of not only biology and the water systems and the ecosystem there, but of the population and the communication as well, if that makes sense.

Steve Cuden: That’s way deeper than I was expecting you to go, because you’ve been saying all along that you’re just making these things, you’re not really thinking them through all that deeply. But in fact, I. That was well thought through. That was very deep.

Amy Genser: Uh, yeah, I guess.

Steve Cuden: And frankly, the word confluence is one that Pittsburghers know well, because the three rivers here are always talked about as the confluence of the monongahela, the Allegheny, to form, uh, uh, the Ohio river. But they always use the word confluence, which is a word that you don’t hear all that often.

Amy Genser: Yeah, I think you hear them in cities where rivers come together. Yeah, our bodies of water comes together, but I love that word for exchange of ideas, all coming together to flow in a new direction.

Steve Cuden: Well, for sure, because that’s exactly what it is. You’re taking different things and forming something new out of them.

Amy Genser: Yep. You were saying like I do have these ideas and concepts that do go into the work, but I guess in terms of using that well, it is definitely reflected in the composition of the piece, too, and I do have that concept before I start the piece. When it’s a project like that, something that’s going in, uh, the public domain that does have to be a little more conceptual and thought out.

Steve Cuden: Do you prefer a commissioned piece over something that you’re just coming up with on your own that you might try to sell later? Do you prefer the commission?

Amy Genser: I need both.

Steve Cuden: You need both?

Amy Genser: I need both.

Steve Cuden: And when you’re working on a commission piece, are you usually responding to the wants and needs, the color choices, the design choices of a place that you’re going into, or do they give you free reign?

Amy Genser: Rarely. Um, do I get free reign, although that’s when you get the best work, people. Um, yeah, just a side note there.

Steve Cuden: Some constraints are good.

Amy Genser: Constraints are fine. Yes. A lot of times when I’m working with client, particularly residential clients, I’ll say, all right, let me see where you want to put it. Where’s the space? And we’ll kind of come to a size. I’ll do sketches for them so they can see what scale works the best in their space, and then I will give them the assignment of looking through my portfolio, usually just my website, and taking notes to the best of their ability to be able to describe maybe why they like a piece, what they like about it, both in terms of color, composition, texture. It could be, you know, sometimes they just say, I don’t even know. Or I once had a guy say, it just sounds like jazz to me. I hear jazz when I look at this, and I was like, really? Okay, well, cool. All right, I’ll try to do that again.

Steve Cuden: I agree. It is like your work is like jazz. It has a jazz like feel to it. You take one theme, and then you repetitiously alter it and change it and make something new as you’re going along. I think that’s a, uh, good equivalence. Explain for the listeners about this recent installation called shifting. I’ve seen pictures of it. I don’t even know how to describe it. Are you able to describe it?

Amy Genser: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s up, actually, through December of this year. I put it up in February of 2022. So it’s had a good run a couple more months now. Be sad. I just set the date to go take it down. But what it is is it’s a gallery in this craft museum that is in Brockton, Massachusetts. Like, you said, and it’s very nestled into its surroundings in the woods. It’s by a big lake. It’s very beautiful. It has a lot of windows. And I noticed when I was there that the seasons must play a very large role in how it feels to be in this building, both in terms of the light and the colors. And, I mean, I first went there in fall, and the colors were dynamite. All the leaves and the sky was beautiful. So I took that concept of the seasons in that space and made pieces that reflected the changing of the seasons. So mostly it’s. I tried to evoke feelings of trees and growth and again, the water flowing, but I. And I got really. I was feeling really, um, kind of stifled and bored for a few years. Just felt like I was making the same thing. And while I enjoyed and loved making it, I felt like I needed to do something new and gave myself again. Here I go with the assignment is I was able to work with the museum on this project, and they said, here you go. And they gave me carte blanche. They said, here’s the space, do whatever you want. And so I got to work with new materials and started to incorporate that mesh. And I went through a lot of different things before landing on this product, but I then build with it. So it’s coming off of the walls.

Steve Cuden: It’s leaping off of the walls. It’s, um, amazing.

Amy Genser: Yeah, yeah. So it’s very coming. It comes off of the walls into the space, and it flows and it undulates. It goes on the ceiling. If I had my way, it would go on the floor, but it is a kind of heavily trafficked area, so that probably wouldn’t be such a great idea, but, yeah. And I even wanted to make it bigger. I mean, if you can. So here’s this dream I have is if you can imagine, like, Frank Sarah’s big pieces.

Steve Cuden: Yes.

Amy Genser: You walk in them.

Steve Cuden: Sure.

Amy Genser: Um, of my work, kind of like that, where it’s this whole cave like environment, and I can play around with the lighting to make different drama and make things, to add different drama, rather, and to just really be in it. I mean, this was my first time creating an environment with my work and working in that manner, in that sculptural manner. So I definitely want to keep working with that and push that a lot further.

Steve Cuden: Mhm. So you want to actually take your work and make it so large that people can actually move through it?

Amy Genser: Yes.

Steve Cuden: That’s very ambitious.

Amy Genser: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: And have you thought about what you would need to do in order to structurally make those a piece that large sound. In Richard Serra’s case, uh, he’s using pieces of metal, so it’s not going to just fall down once he’s figured it out. How would you keep your piece up? Wood, metal?

Amy Genser: I don’t know yet. Yeah. See, that’s something I would have to explore. And what’s cool about that and exploring with the new materials is so, okay, I’d have to play around with all those things, but while I’m playing around with those things, the work will change of what I had in mind to begin with, because working with new materials kind of informs the process, and then that, in turn, affects the product.

Steve Cuden: So the space that shifting is in, you say it has lots of windows, and the light is probably always moving around in there. Yes. And so how important, then, is lightning in your work?

Amy Genser: You know, I don’t necessarily always think of it strategically or, um, purposefully. And how I’m going to use light to affect my piece. That’s definitely something I would love to think about and would be a lot of fun.

Steve Cuden: Um, I guess what I’m trying to get at is even if you’re not planning for the light to have an effect on your work, the light does have an effect on your work, without a doubt.

Amy Genser: Yeah. In terms of, like, the color, and.

Steve Cuden: You’Re casting shadows in different direction depending upon where the light’s coming from, the work changes and looks different in different lighting all the time.

Amy Genser: Absolutely.

Steve Cuden: I think that’s very fascinating. You know, that can be true with a painting, too, on a. You know, a two dimensional painting, but not so much. Not like your work, where it really does shift around with the different light. Do you ever think about putting it into a space that has no light in it and specifically lighting it a certain way?

Amy Genser: No, but that would be very cool.

Steve Cuden: Yeah. I mean, that maybe you can help.

Amy Genser: Me with that, Steve.

Steve Cuden: I can. I have a little tiny background in that. Yes, I think that would be cool, because then you could. You could actually change the lighting in an enclosed space and make the work look different on a regular basis. I think that’d be kind of cool to do. Do you think of your work as commercial?

Amy Genser: How would you define that?

Steve Cuden: Well, you’re. I think of commercial art as that you’re purposely making it in order to make money with it. Do you think of your work that way, or do you think of your work as it’s just an outpouring of your soul, or is it both?

Amy Genser: Both.

Steve Cuden: It’s both.

Amy Genser: Absolutely. Um, both. Yep. I will make things that I know, will not sell.

Steve Cuden: And why won’t they sell? Why do you think that?

Amy Genser: Or maybe that I’m not even trying to sell. I don’t know.

Steve Cuden: They’re just experimental, so they’re not forcing.

Amy Genser: Yeah. And a lot of times with things that don’t finish, I just have them as side projects that I’ll work on. Sometimes I’ll make things to sell that I know. You know what will sell well, and certain sizes and colors and, I mean, let’s be honest, I have to make a living, and.

Steve Cuden: Well, exactly. So there’s no shame in it. Uh, most artists are trying to sell their work on some level. Most artists do not want to be like Van Gogh and go their entire life and only sell one painting. No, you want to make money with it. But there is a difference to me between truly commercial artists versus artists who are, um, they don’t even think about selling it. They’re just working. Yeah. I think you have a little bit of both going on.

Amy Genser: Yep.

Steve Cuden: Yep. What do you do to keep sharp?

Amy Genser: In what way?

Steve Cuden: In life. How do you keep yourself sharp so that you can keep work? Do you have to work with your hands? Do you have to exercise so that you can actually do this physical labor of making the art?

Amy Genser: Yeah, I have to keep my body healthy and strong, definitely stretching and working out and trying to take care of myself, both in terms of not physically being able to do it all the time, but also mentally, too. Taking breaks. Yeah. Because it’s. I know for a lot of artists, it’s very easy to get wrapped up in your, in your work, and, you know, the next thing you know, your whole day’s gone by, but then your body’s in pain and.

Steve Cuden: Exactly. That’s. That’s why I ask, do you have a particular technique that you use? Do you. Is it yoga? Is it running? Uh, is it. What technique do you use? Anything.

Amy Genser: I walk my dogs.

Steve Cuden: You walk your dogs?

Amy Genser: I walk my dogs, yeah. Lift a little bit of weights a couple times a week and. Yeah. And then, you know, my family, three kids, as you know, and I do that kind, uh, of just shuts the clock off at a certain point also. Right. It’s like an enforced deadline of the day where.

Steve Cuden: Well, sure. Um, you have to pay attention to that part of your life as well. You can’t just all be art and work and work and work. You actually have a, uh, personal life as well.

Amy Genser: So that’s how I keep sharp, too.

Steve Cuden: But there are artists and writers and people in the, in the creative industries that do ignore their life. They’re just dug in on what they do. Do, do. I’ve been there. I’ve done that a little bit myself. I’ve had to try and get away from it. But you have the family, and the family sort of forces you into that.

Amy Genser: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Steve Cuden: What special items do you have in the studio that you must have? Is it music? Is it food? Is it. Is there something that you need to have in the studio in order for you to continue to do your work? Be inspired and so on.

Amy Genser: A lot of windows.

Steve Cuden: Windows.

Amy Genser: A lot of natural light. A space that feels good. Room to move around. So you need pretty much it.

Steve Cuden: You need a large space.

Amy Genser: Yes.

Steve Cuden: So you wouldn’t work well in a confined or smaller space?

Amy Genser: No, no. I would feel claustrophobic and limited. I need space and light.

Steve Cuden: Do you. I don’t want to use the word inappropriately, but do you dance around in the studio? I don’t mean dance, literally dance, but I mean, do you move around a.

Amy Genser: Lot of depending on the size of the piece? Yeah, sometimes I am moving a lot. In fact, when I was creating that piece for the fuller, the installation, it was all, uh, over my studio, every single wall, and I was constantly up and down on a scaffolding thing that I had in the studio and up and down the ladder. I mean, I would be sweating just constantly. And, uh, by the end of that, my neck and my back hurts so bad. I really just had to take some time off. I was in bad shape.

Steve Cuden: And you were losing track of time while you were doing it. So the body was also losing track of itself?

Amy Genser: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was all out of whack, but I had to be, you know, I had to be up by a certain point. And it was a lot of work. It was pretty ambitious, and I just had to get it done.

Steve Cuden: What were the biggest obstacles that you had to overcome?

Amy Genser: Just how to build this thing, uh, mechanically, you know, how to put it together and install it and having it all come together. I wasn’t able to see it all laid out until I was finally in the museum. In hindsight, I would have built in more time so that I could have gone and done that and then. And then worked it a little bit more. But on the other hand, there is something to be said for just having a little, you know, having a plan, but then leaving a little room for that unexpected.

Steve Cuden: What I’m hearing in there is there might be things that you would, as you like to take her. There are things you probably would like to do a little differently if you could. Is that true?

Amy Genser: Yeah, definitely.

Steve Cuden: And so has anybody ever said to you any of those things that you think need changed?

Amy Genser: No.

Steve Cuden: No. So it’s really your point of view. Uh, but everyone. No one else knows that it needs change. Just you?

Amy Genser: No. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: I think that’s the sign of an I. Actual true artist. So I have been having the most wonderful conversation with Amy Gaenser for close to an hour at this point. And I’m just wondering, in all of your experiences over all this time working with art and artists, do you have a story that you can share with us that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or maybe just plain funny?

Amy Genser: I probably have one of each of those, but I’ve picked a few. So the first one that I got a kick out of was early on in my career, I was right out of graduate school, and I made this big piece. I think it was. Well, it was really big for me at that point. It was 20. I think it was, like, 36 by 48. And it was bought in a gallery in Boston on Newberry street. And the client was from Australia. And, uh, shipping became so expensive that the client actually just bought a. A plane ticket for the piece and sat it next to him on the seat. So I always imagine that in my head, I think it’s pretty. That was pretty funny. Um.

Steve Cuden: I imagine. Did they give it a drink?

Amy Genser: I hope so. No, it’s, like, all wrapped up in bubble wrap. Probably needed some air. Yeah. Um, let’s see, what else? Another kind of weird one that just kind of makes you raise your eyebrows at was I was at a hospital installing a piece, and it was a brand new facility, and there were other artists installing work at the same time. And the hospital, I can’t remember if they didn’t have their certificate of occupancy yet or they had just gotten it. In any case, the, uh, architect said, you need to wear closed toed shoes and pants and, you know, like, the helmet. Right.

Steve Cuden: A hard hat.

Amy Genser: Thank you. Yeah, I’m not a word person. I’m a visual person.

Steve Cuden: That’s okay.

Amy Genser: So. Thank you, word person. Um, I had on the hard hat, and, you know, I’m, like, a rule follower, so I am, like, good to go. I know. In my jeans, my overalls, my, like, thick work boots. But down the hall from me was a mosaic artist who was refusing to wear number one, closed toed shoes. She insisted on wearing sandals, and she said, it’s too hot. I need to wear shorts. So, you know, I’m like, what? Like, seriously, lady. Like, uh. And then the next thing I know is that we all have to leave because this woman is not following the rules and regulations of a building code that are there for your safety, lady. So we all had to leave, and then we couldn’t, like, work for a day or something that they then had to, like, get permission again to let us in. So then my project ended up having to go in high speed because then I only had two days to install it, whereas I really needed four or five because some lady wouldn’t wear shoes.

Steve Cuden: And how did you solve that?

Amy Genser: I had to work really quickly, day and night, after just sitting for a day, not being allowed in the building. M that’s frustrating. That was pretty frustrating.

Steve Cuden: That sounds like the theater to me because most shows that I’ve worked on, and I’ve worked on many, there come moments where you’re absolutely in trouble and you have to work super fast to make everything work because something got screwed up along the way. That’s what that sounds like to me.

Amy Genser: Yep. Yep. How do you deal with that best?

Steve Cuden: You do just exactly what you said. You just forge ahead and you do what it takes. And you know what? They always work out somehow, don’t they?

Amy Genser: I guess, yeah.

Steve Cuden: It almost never doesn’t work out. I mean, the audience is coming in whether you’re ready or not.

Amy Genser: It’s true. And I always say, you know, I do think it’s funny sometimes when there are, like, strict art deadlines, especially with residential projects, because, like, who has an art emergency that, like, you have to have it certain type or else?

Steve Cuden: Uh, that is true now. Yes, that is true. Who has an art emergency? Last, last question for you today, Amy, you’ve already told us lots of great pieces of advice along the road here, but I’m just wondering, do you have a solid piece of advice or a tip that you can lend to those that are maybe just starting out in the art business or maybe they’re in a little bit and trying to figure out how to make it grow or go to that next level?

Amy Genser: Yeah, I mean, I definitely have a couple things. One is purely skill based in the fact that I always tell young artists to make sure that they have all the computer skills that they can possibly get, that they learn Photoshop, that they learn illustrator, that they become great photographers and understand images and how they’re put together. And you’re going to need so many different kinds of images along the way. So that helps in documenting art and preparing art and figuring out what you’re going to do in a space. All of my graphic design skills have saved me. I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have those skills. I mean, I started off my career designing websites and learned coding. And while I don’t use that anymore, it helps me to be able to understand what’s happening with the materials, uh, that I put together to either accompany my work or to help my clients understand how my work is going to look in different spaces. So that is very technical advice.

Steve Cuden: Well, you need that technical advice, don’t you?

Amy Genser: Yes, but you’d be surprised, at least when I went to art school. I mean, granted, it was like 100 years ago at this point. They didn’t teach that. You just had to learn that on your own, outside of class. You just had to know. So I don’t know what they do now. I’m totally out of it. So that’s my technical advice. In terms of other advice, I would just say to understand. I mean, and, you know, this, that rejection is part of it. And that it’s not necessarily rejection, it’s that it’s not right for a certain place at a certain time. So to not take it personally that your art sucks, that the work’s not good, and that you shouldn’t keep going. It’s just, you know, like any art form, you get a lot of no’s. Just as many no’s, probably more. You know, it’s like, if I think about me selecting a piece of art for my home, if I’m narrowing it down to four, it doesn’t mean I don’t like the three that I didn’t pick. So to keep that in mind, to not take it personally and to, um, be brave.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, I think that that’s very wise advice. Because the way, the best way I think, to think about those things are, if it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be. Not that I’m a fatalist, because I’m not. But if it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be if somebody’s going to like it and buy it, and I. And by the way, it doesn’t mean if a thousand people look at it and reject it, it doesn’t mean that the thousand and first won’t fall in love with it.

Amy Genser: Exactly.

Steve Cuden: So it is a matter of keeping, uh, at it and keeping at the work and keeping doing it and not dwelling on what you’ve already done, but to move forward as you do.

Amy Genser: Yes. And putting yourself out there so that even if it’s not, if your objective is to sell the work. If it’s not selling in a certain place, maybe you got to shake that up and try somewhere else, another avenue, another media. You know, just, uh, being able to be flexible with the way you’re working with it and having an open mind, talking to people, talking to all different kinds of people, no matter what they do, asking questions to just, uh, in trial and error above all else. Right. I mean, 100% getting it out there.

Steve Cuden: Well, that is extremely wise advice. And I think, uh, well, uh, put. And it’s a important that those that are in the business of the arts that they don’t find that some rejection is. Means your entire career is lost. You just have to keep moving forward.

Amy Genser: Yeah, I always say that, like, the best thing that I learned in, uh, art school was basically, I bought confidence so that when most people tell you something’s not great, but if one does or you feel it, it’s good that keep going. So, confidence.

Steve Cuden: Fantastic. Fantastic. Amy Ganser, this has been just a marvelous and fun hour plus for me on StoryBeat and I can’t thank you enough for giving me your time and all of this wisdom and all of your energy, and I hope you just keep making great art.

Amy Genser: Yeah, I have no choice. Thank you so much. Steve, it’s been a pleasure to speak with you. I really appreciate you. You interviewed me. It’s great to talk with you. Hope we can talk again soon.

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you are listening to. Your support helps us bring more great StoryBeat episodes to you. Storybeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartradio, Stitcher, Tunein, and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden, and may all your stories be unforgettable.