Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

Amy Powers: The other thing I would say is to redefine no. So we all have the choice in the story of our lives to say no means this or no means that. No means next. Like, oh, that wasn’t the right thing anyway. Do something else, right? Go on. Or no means no for now, come back to it later. Or maybe this person and I will do something later. Right? No means nothing. I don’t care how many people say no. I know what I have is a yes.

Announcer: This is StoryBeat with Steve Cuden, a podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment. Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, Amy Powers is a Harvard-trained lawyer, Columbia University MBA, best-selling author, Emmy-nominated songwriter, theater and film producer, online business owner, coach, and connector. After discovering that being a lawyer fed her bank account but starved her soul, she ditched that life to begin writing lyrics, finding Multi-Platinum s success with artists from Barbie to Barbara Streisand. Freelance life brought its own challenges, unpredictable income, uncontrollable marketplace changes, and too few hours spent with her husband and sons. She yearned to increase her revenue, decrease her stress and have more flexibility. That’s when she discovered network marketing through a company that aligned with her core values of healthy living inside and out. After following her company’s blueprint to create an extra six-figure revenue stream and seven-figure asset, Amy felt called to reach a wider audience and assist others looking for solutions. Amy’s book no Degree Required Network Marketing the Ivy League Way is a number one Amazon bestseller. I’ve read no Degree Required and can tell you it’s a fast-paced and entertaining look at network marketing. I highly recommend no Degree Required to anyone interested in the world of network marketing or looking for inspiration in it. Additionally, Amy and her husband J. Todd Harris co produce in both theater and film. On stage. They’ve co-produced Heather’s the Musical, Phenomenal Woman, the Maya Angelou Story, the Broadway Bound, Hippa Trip, the Soul Train Musical, and a revival of her own Broadway musical Dr. Zhivago. Their work in film includes On Fire, the acclaimed autobiography of world-renowned inspirational speaker John O’Leary. Amy’s newest venture, Amy Sent Me a health and happiness concierge service helps people up-level their lives and businesses with handpicked pre-vetted services from psychic mediums to sober coaches, book writing to boudoir photography and health reboots to healing retreats. Please be sure to stick around at the end of the show because Amy has generously lent us one of her songs, the Sands of Time, for you to enjoy. So for all those reasons and many more, it’s a true privilege to chat with the excellent, multi-talented writer, lyricist, lawyer and businesswoman, Amy Powers. Amy, welcome to StoryBeat.

Amy Powers: Thank you so much, Steve.

Steve Cuden: Um, it is my great pleasure to have you here. So let’s go back in time just a little bit. At what age did you realize you were a creative person? How old were you when you started to create?

Amy Powers: Well, the quick answer is I really didn’t get it until I was almost 30.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Amy Powers: Right. So, um, in my timeline I did the lawyer, business school, all that stuff. Um, and that was years and years of graduate school. I did not understand that, uh, the little ditties that I was writing, the songs, billion words of my own, two popular songs that I, when I was bored in classes, that that was actually a thing that it was actually showing me a tal one. So I just continued to do that until I hit uh, a proverbial wall, uh, on Wall Street actually. I was working for a big New York firm. It was in my late 20s and that was when I had to take some time off because I got physically ill. Doing that kind of job at that kind of pace, it just was not a fit for me. Um, and so I was in bed and uh, looking for something to do to pass the time as I got better. And I had luckily a wonderful boyfriend, um, at the time who had studied with Tom Lerer. I’m not sure if you remember Tom of Tom Charab. Right. And musical theater writer as well. And um, my boyfriend said to me, you know those crazy little things that you’ve been writing in your books site that I found from your school times? I’m looking at them and I think that you’d actually enjoy writing a song. Why don’t you try it? And so one day, um, I went into the PE pen and paper and hand. I went into a transfer 3 hours as I sat down to try to do this. And then when I came out of the trance, and that was my first trance ever, um, needless to say that was a surprising experience too. But when I came out of the trance, there was a lyric on the paper.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Amy Powers: Yeah. And that was the um, song that changed my life.

Steve Cuden: Many people will call that being in the zone. Correct.

Amy Powers: But if you’ve never been in the zone and you don’t know there is a zone, it’s even a bigger shock.

Steve Cuden:  Mhm, sure.

Amy Powers: Especially if you spent a long time going down one road and then you realize, oh, they’re actually super highways in the other direction.

Steve Cuden: Because several hours seemed like one second.

Amy Powers: Right.

Steve Cuden: And that’s what that.

Amy Powers: That’s why I knew that my life was never going to be the same. Because whatever that feeling was, that’s the.

Steve Cuden: Feeling I want it. So you were practicing law. Law, um, on Wall Street.

Amy Powers: Yeah, uh, well, with a Wall street type firm, uh, called White and Case.

Steve Cuden: Okay.

Amy Powers: I was in real estate finance law. I can think of nothing less of a fit for who I really am. But it was paying the bills magnificently.

Steve Cuden: Did you think of yourself and maybe you didn’t because you didn’t come to this realization later? Did you think of yourself as a creative lawyer? No, no. You. You were contracts and it was nuts and bolts and all those things.

Amy Powers: Right. I really a different person on a different path.

Steve Cuden: Were you always, even as a kid, musically oriented though?

Amy Powers: Uh, not exactly. Although I have very fond memories of singing Gilbert and Sullivan in the car. My dad, uh, and mom, uh, and my brother. What else? I went to arts camps and I did crazy things like I learned the Element Song. That is a Tom Laer song. Do you know that?

Steve Cuden: Yes, I do know.

Amy Powers: Do you want to sing it with me? Right.

Steve Cuden: No, I don’t know it off by heart. I’m just familiar with it. I know which song you mean. Ok. So. No, we’re not. Believe me, no one wants to hear me sing anything.

Amy Powers: Nobody wants to hear me sing anything either. That’s the other thing that’s great about being a lyricist is uh, you don’t have to exactly.

Steve Cuden: You can kind of massage your way through it, but nobody wants to hear it.

Amy Powers: Right. When did you Element Song is learning it has every single element on the periodic table?

Steve Cuden: Right.

Amy Powers: In song.

Steve Cuden: Well, he was extremely clever, wasn’t he? The Vatican Rag.

Amy Powers: Yes, the Vatican Rag.

Steve Cuden: Same. Yeah, he was brilliant. And that was sort of the 60s and 70s. He was like on that counterculture edge. And yet he was didn’t look or act counterculture, but his work was.

Amy Powers: Right. I actually think he was a Harvard professor at one time.

Steve Cuden: I think he was. I mean he was a genius. He was a brilliant man.

Amy Powers: Right. And one of those people who just showed us that you don’t have to be one thing or another. You can be one thing on another.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that that’s true for a lot of artists who have to support their art by doing other things. And I don’t think that’s unusual to have artists be multi-talented, multi-dimensional in some way. When did you start to think about musicals? Did you like musicals as a kid?

Amy Powers: Well, again, uh, the song will come out tomorrow. Oh, I said I wouldn’t sing. Okay. Um, so, you know.

Steve Cuden: Yes.

Amy Powers: I mean, yes, I liked musicals, but was I ever thinking that that was my path? No. The interesting thing was that as soon as I had written this one lyric, my boyfriend. And if you’re listening, Joshua Hornick. Thank you so much.

Steve Cuden: Shout out to Joshua Hornick.

Amy Powers: Shout out to Joshua Hornick. He said, you know, I’ve heard that there is a workshop for people who want to learn how to write musicals. And we were living in New York at the time, and it was the BMI Musical Theater Workshop.

Steve Cuden: The BMI Lehman Engel Workshop.

Amy Powers: That’s right. Which is an incredible program. Uh, and I actually, sort of out of the blue, I finished the music to that one song myself, which took a long time because I’m not really, really a, uh, musician. And then I sent in that one song and two parodies so that they already knew what the songs would sound like. And I was admitted to the workshop.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Amy Powers: Yeah, so it was sort of like, I don’t know, um, just an out of the blue gift from God, as it were. And then I had to go to my boss and say, hey, can I take every Monday afternoon off? Do you mind? I have to do this thing. I did manage both for a while and really I. It was less thought, more action that got me into the musical theater games.

Steve Cuden: So it sounds to me like music and musicals suddenly became a calling for you. Did you feel that way to you?

Amy Powers: Of course. I wasn’t thinking about doing anything else with those songs because it, uh. And this desire, because it went right in there. It was just one moment, this another moment that.

Steve Cuden: Well, most people have no idea what to do with the talent they have until they figure it out. And sometimes that takes a while. Some people know right away, but many people have no idea for quite some time.

Amy Powers: Right. I mean, I’ve seen it both ways. Um, there are people in my own family, my own son, for instance, uh, Jasper started writing songs, uh, when he was eight. Started writing, composing music. That was not me. Right. Like, and he’s always known he wants to do that and only that. But, uh, a lot of people come.

Steve Cuden: To it differently, but somehow it’s somewhat, I think, genetically passed down because you have that talent. So then he gets some kind of nurture, nature, whatever it is, talent passed down to him. And I’ve heard some of his music in Holy mackerel. He is a great composer and artist.

Amy Powers: Yeah. Not. Yeah. Not a musical theater though.

Steve Cuden: No, but that’s okay.

Amy Powers: I should say yet, you know, but I do think it’s actually combo of nature and nurture because he was surrounded by music his whole life and I started in musical theater and didn’t stay there. So, you know, I think there’s, there’s the, everything of it. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: And he had the. He had the advantage of knowing that it was okay to do this kind of thing because you were doing it.

Amy Powers: That’s a very interesting observation. Yes, he did. And also I held my tongue judiciously, assiduously about the challenges of being in this kind of business and the up and down nature of it and what things are really eventually out of our control. Right. I did not want to stifle him as a creator by letting him know some of the more practical stuff that was complicated.

Steve Cuden: Well, I’ve long said that it’s not a business for the faint of heart or weak of stomach. That’s for sure.

Amy Powers: 100%.

Steve Cuden: If you can’t hack getting rejected or not being hurt at all, you may not be interested in this business because it’s too hard otherwise. Right. Uh, you have to be willing to weather that. So how long did you work at writing lyrics, including in the workshop and beyond, before you felt like, hey, you know what? I am pretty good at this. Maybe I can make a go at it. How long did that take you to get that feeling?

Amy Powers: It sort of came almost right away, interestingly enough, because the workshop had a number of people who all they’d done their entire lives was music. This was the pinnacle of, you know, success for them was getting into a place where they could have tremendous education from people who’d been there on Broadway, etc. So I was sort of pushed from the get go to get my game on.

Steve Cuden: Well, it’s a big deal to get in the BMI limit angle. It’s a huge deal.

Amy Powers: Uh, I didn’t know that though. But yeah. So there’s a bunch of and bunches people who apply for it. So I was automatically like, I remember, um, one of my first writing partners there was Andrew Lippa.

Steve Cuden: Sure.

Amy Powers: Everybody there ups your game for you. And because that’s all they’re talking about, thinking about eating, drinking, sleeping, musical theater, you Know, it becomes it. I credit the workshop for demanding us to choose a, uh, year long project that we would do as a final project for our second year. And, um, I ended up working with Megan Cavallari, who’s also in the workshop and met a great librettist outside the workshop, David Topchik. And he came in and we wrote, uh, a version, uh, of Dangerous Liaisons as a musical.

Steve Cuden: Oh, wow.

Amy Powers: And yeah, it’s called the Game. And we wrote it for the workshop originally, but then we were asked to have it produced down at Cap 21 at, uh, the TIS school. So, uh, with Frank flintoa. So we had a production from a workshop situation that was really not supposed to be public. And then things just sort of spiral from there.

Steve Cuden: Well, isn’t that how it works? Sometimes one thing leads to another and you don’t. You’re not anticipating that chain of events happening. It just happens.

Amy Powers: Right.

Steve Cuden: And I think that is how the arts work a lot of the time.

Amy Powers: Yes. And it’s really, it’s that one person in the audience who sees something. Right. Who does something. In this case, it was actually Jerry Schonfeld from the Schubert organization.

Steve Cuden: Wow. Okay.

Amy Powers: The audience. Right. So. And then he introduced me to Andre Lloyd Weber, of all people. Soes. It just, it was a thing. It was just a roller coaster and I was on it.

Steve Cuden: Well, and he now has a theater named for him. The Schoenfeld Theater is. Which used to be the Plymouth Theater, which is where Jekyll and Hyde ran for four years in the 90s.

Amy Powers: Oh, my goodness, we’re connected.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, there you go. So I’m curious. When you think about songs, what for you makes one song good, but another not? What makes a good song good to you?

Amy Powers: Well, I’m, um, one of those hook people. I mean, if it doesn’t stick in your ear musically and lyrically, if the hook isn’t there, there’s nothing. Right.

Steve Cuden: It’s hard to remember it.

Amy Powers: Uh, hard to forget it.

Steve Cuden: Hard to forget it, sure.

Amy Powers: But yeah, can’t forget it. It says something. Here’s to the ladies who lunch. It says something that means something to you. Right.

Steve Cuden: Uh, you get it.

Amy Powers: You never forget it.

Steve Cuden: If it gets into your and under your skin, as a listener, then you win.

Amy Powers: I’ve got you under my skin.

Steve Cuden: It’ll never work.

Amy Powers: Do you know how, um, Somewhere over the Rainbow actually was not going to be in the movie of the Wizard of Oz? They had to fight and fight and fight to keep it in. You know, this story.

Steve Cuden: I think I do know the story, but that doesn’t surprise me. But, you know, people don’t know before they know. And that’s. That’s it. That’s a huge story with many musicals. People write a song, it goes into a musical, they take it back out of the musical, and later on they put it back in and they know they needed it in. And that happens frequently because you don’t know until you know when an audience tells you.

Amy Powers: Right, right. But, uh, if you heard Somewhere over the Rainbow and you didn’t understand that this was something magical, then you didn’t have yours.

Steve Cuden: But think about that period at MGM with all of those writers writing all those classic songs. It was just another classic song until somebody went, wow, that’s really special. But it would have just been part of that parade of songs.

Amy Powers: Yes, well, there was a huge spiritual dump of magnificence in that era, Right?

Steve Cuden: Absolutely.

Amy Powers: And same thing with Brill building. There was just. Just great stuff going on. Yes. It could have gotten lost in the sauce.

Steve Cuden: And do we have anything like that today? I don’t think we do. I mean, maybe Nashville. I don’t know where it is anymore. Where there’s a hub of artists all gathered together, pounding out material. It’s sort of not there anymore. We kind of need it.

Amy Powers: There are songwriting camps and there are places to go. Labels will do them. Um, and also BMI and ASCAP do them in different cities. But it’s not the same. And it’s not the everyday. You’re down the hall. Let me forever. Let’s knock on this door and play this and see who thinks what about that? Or this Not. It’s not the same. I know. There was a golden age. We’re living in a different metal.

Steve Cuden: Yeah. There’d be 30 would, uh, be geniuses all working in the same place. And, you know, they were pushing each other. It’s just like Laurel Canyon back in the 70s. Uh, was pushing artists to do great things in rock and roll. So do you prefer writing one off songs or do you prefer writing musicals, which is more fun for you?

Amy Powers: That’s a really interesting question because. Oh, it’s like a, like a snack versus a meal.

Steve Cuden: Um, it’s m. Much more. It’s much more than a meal. It’s many meals music.

Amy Powers: But what I mean is this one of songs are snacky yum yum. Right?

Steve Cuden: Yes.

Amy Powers: Um, and they’re great. But musicals are. Well, if they’re done right. There’s the banquet. It’s not just a meal. M Right. Then theque that people keep coming to. And as a creator, it’s a lot. This is what’s come to mind as the answer to that. Ready? I have a friend who’s a chef. She’s, uh, uh, she has. She’s not just a chef. Her company has served everything from White House inaugurations to weddings to this, that and the other. What she prepares takes a long time. And it’s delicious. Right. Not without its ways. It could go wrong. Right. Uh, it’s exhausting even to think about what Pam does. Um, but it’s impressive. That’s different than me going and making a shake for a minute in my blender and drinking it. Pop songs are like shakes. Right. You know, musicals are that. They take everything. And in terms of one or the other, it’s not an either or for me. Ah. It’s both.

Steve Cuden: Well, and you’re writing songs that have to support both character and story and not just some, uh, you know, wonderful ephemeral notion for a song.

Amy Powers: Correct? Correct. So pop songs going to be more fun. You, uh, know, one-off songs can to be more fun. But there’s something more satisfying about when you get every piece in its place and every song does its job and, you know, and you’re moving things along like that. It’s great. It just takes 14 years or 10 years.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, 10 years at least. Really. It’s a crazy business to be. And that is for sure. Do you. I’ll ask you the question that I ask lyricists and songwriters. Do you prefer to write the lyrics first or the music first? Which is better for you?

Amy Powers: Oh, well, that depends. I mean, first of all. So I do lyrics and melodies. Right, Right. I, uh, love working with people. It’s very, um, energizing for me. Uh, a lot of people don’t feel that way. They sort of like to go into their cave and stay there and then give it to somebody. Right. Like Bernie Talbobin used to do with Elton John.

Steve Cuden: Sure, of course.

Amy Powers: Right. This is my thing here. Go set a melody.

Steve Cuden: Or Gilbert and Sullivan.

Amy Powers: Gilt and Sullivan. Exactly. The other. They didn’t like each other.

Steve Cuden: They hated each other. Yeah.

Amy Powers: But their stuff was still fantastic. Um, I’a let’s play together type. So, um, it doesn’t matter what comes first. If someone comes to me with a melody, I will hear the words and then I’ll sometimes also offer to change bits of the melody and say, hey, you know, I heard it this way actually. Is that okay?

Steve Cuden: That. I think that’s called research and development. That’s the development part of the song. And if you are open to development as an artist, then you continue. And if you are working with a collaborator, you kind of need to be flexible, don’t you?

Amy Powers: Depends on who you are, of course, but I’m saying it’s helpful already a, ah, highly successful, let’s say composer. Um, and you have a particular way of doing things. You don’t have to do anything any other way. But would it have been better if you were more open and playful? Probably.

Steve Cuden: Well, I know that story well, and we’re not going down that road, but nevertheless, I do know that story. So do you then have a regular routine or is your routine always different?

Amy Powers: Always different. Except, um. Uh, I have a couple of habits. Right.

Steve Cuden: Like what? What are your habits?

Amy Powers: First habit is whenever I get inspired to write something, I have to get it out of my body and onto, uh, a paper or a voice note right away. Otherwise I will forget it. It’s been many, many years.

Steve Cuden: Do you carry something with you all the time that will allow you to jot it down or to record it? Phone, Phone.

Amy Powers: Yes. It’s there and then it’s not there. The heaven’s open, then they close again. Um, at least that’s the way it is for me. So that’s one thing. Always get it out. That’s a habit of mye. Get it out right away. And then the other thing would be. The second thing that I would do is right now, edit later, get it all out, all the ideas out right away. And then don’t think, oh, this really couldn’t be. What is the next line? I’ll skip things. Uh, I’ll have a start and then a middle something and then maybe something that could go at the end and then I’ll just fill them in later.

Steve Cuden: You believe in purging out what you need to purge out and then cutting later?

Amy Powers: Hilarious. Wait, it’s hilarious that you say that, Steve? Because I often used to call my drafts vomit drafts.

Steve Cuden: Well, lots of people do you know Annie Lamott, who’s a very well known author?

Amy Powers: Yeah, sure.

Steve Cuden: Uh, wrote a book called Bird by Bird, which is about writing. And in it she has an entire chapter called Shitty First Draft.

Amy Powers: It’s just that thing.

Steve Cuden: It’s just that thing. And I believe in that wholeheartedly. You purge it out and then you shape the thing after you’ve purged it out.

Amy Powers: Right. And if you’re doing it with somebody else, you shape it with them and you play that ping pong back.

Steve Cuden: And of course that’s the beauty part of the collaboration is that you do. That’s assuming you’re not going back a step to the person who’s stuck in their ways. But if you’re working with somebody who’s ping ponging, that’s really great.

Amy Powers: Yes. And that’s by the way, a way to discern who you want to be writing with is the kind of person who likes to play ping pong.

Steve Cuden: It’s a bit of a marriage, isn’t it?

Amy Powers: Uh, um, it’s not just a bit. It’s all the things of a marriage.

Steve Cuden: Well, I hope it’s not all of the things of marage.

Amy Powers: No, except for that one.

Steve Cuden: Unless you’re actually married to that person, you know.

Amy Powers: Yeah, no, I was thinking contractually and stuff like that.

Steve Cuden: Absolutely. So what do you think you’ve learned from this process up till now? All of your various processes that you think is the way that you want to keep doing things? Is it this collaboration effort or what? What have you learned that you now know that it took you a while maybe to figure out that you go, yep, this is the way to do it.

Amy Powers: Um, I think that I have learned trust. Trust in myself and trust in my collaborators. And it’s interesting because I didn’t always trust my collaborators. And as I was going through the process, you know, I worked with many, many, many people. So when I started that, I sor of started at the top first with the great people at BMI M and then I had that and Lloyd Weber experience. And after the thing with Andrew, I decided I was going to start to write pop music. And I went through literally hundreds of collaboratorsow yeah. Because I had to find the right fit. It was like dating. Sometimes it’s right, sometimes it’s a disaster. Right?

Steve Cuden: Yeah. Well, s. That’s. You’re looking for a mate.

Amy Powers: Yes. So, um, I learned to trust my instincts as to who to choose. Hopefully, like dating, you get better at knowing who’s right, who’s wrong.

Steve Cuden: Well, isn’t it part of, part of that, uh, the elimination process is okay, I know that I met this person, that person was not right for me. And here’s why. If you can analy it and then the next person comes along and is sort of the same thing and you go, well, no, I already know, I’m eliminating that. And then you move on to the next person until you find something that.

Amy Powers: Just fits perfectly exactly Right. So in my case, it’s people who are, uh, ego free in their writing who do not have anything precious about what they’re presenting or be or people who are, you know, are completely open to what you offering and have a good sense um, of awareness and humor about what they’re offering when it’s not so good. Um, uh, and people who are going.

Steve Cuden: To uh, uplift, make me better, they compliment you. Um, they don’t use the same systems of way of working. They complimented you in some way.

Amy Powers: Right. Like here’s a great example of that. So, um, I wrote Dr. Zhivago, the musical with Lucy Simon, the late great and um, just love her, uh, and Michael Corey. So Michael had never co written before. I had experience writing hundreds and hundreds of pop songs with people as co writer, uh, as a co lyricist even. Right. Um, because sometimes the people who are composers also write lyrics. So sometimes we do that dance together. Right. Michael had never had that. He was a great librettist for opera and musical theater. Uh, and he was a great lyricist. But he also just wrote alone and most of the time, all the time. And I was able to say, hey look, let’s play in this sandbox together. I’ll uh, bring what I have, which is a very emotional pop based sensibility. You bring what you have, which is a more intellectual operatic sensibility. And let’s see where we can go with that.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s a, uh. I think if you can figure that out, that’s ideal.

Amy Powers: Yeah. So we were, we had strengths that were complementary and that’s I think what you’re really looking for.

Steve Cuden: Well that is when you are complemnentting one another. It’s a very useful thing to have in a relationship because if you’re not complimenting each other, it’s torture.

Amy Powers: Again, like a marriage.

Steve Cuden: Like a marriage, exactly. Right. Of the three legs of a musical, you have a libretto and then you have music. Which is more important, the book, the music or the lyrics?

Amy Powers: Oh well that’s. You need all the legs. And by the way, let me say uh, that Michael Weller actually wrote the book for the musical of Dr. Zhivago. Michael Corey assisted a lot in the shaping of that. But we are technically listed as coyricists and it doesn’t really matter who does what. Right. Uh, it doesn’t matter who’s credited as what. Everybody needs that their own part to, you know, to be strong. Librettis are the unsung heroes of musical theater. We know that if there are great songs and, and the book fizzles, it’s just not going to hold up. But. Right. It’s not going to hold up through time, you might have an, uh, isolated song that people will remember, but not the whole thing.

Steve Cuden: Well, the book writers are usually screwed because the old adage is if people love a musical, they come out singing the tunes. And if they don’t like a musical, they blame the book writer.

Amy Powers: Yes. Ah, also true. Also true. And, you know, I don’t. It’s hard for me to name book writers actually, as, uh, there are fewer heroes, um, and famous book writers in my mind right now. Can you think of.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, Hugh Wheeler is one. But, you know, there are, um. John Widman is one. There. There are many cases where the lyricist is also the book writer. So Lerner and Low, Rogers and Hammerstein, you know, Hammerstein and, um, Lerner were writing the books as well. But yes, it’s true. It’s very hard to find known book writers. Tommy Mehan was a famous book writer. Many musicals that were very successful.

Amy Powers: It’s not sexy.

Steve Cuden: No. It’s hard work and it’s thankless because you’re sort of getting out, out of the way for all of that. You have to have a story that works, but you’re also then getting out of the way for the things that the people came. The theater to see and hear, which are the songs and the dance numbers.

Amy Powers: Exactly. If you don’t do your job, people really won’t be moved in the same way. And that’s why they come out crabby. But they’re not going to come out going, wow, that guy.

Steve Cuden: Well, yeah, they don’t remember the book at all, other than it was something, somehow it worked. But they remember the music and lyrics because the music taps into your emotional core that a story main not, or lines of dialogue might not, but the music will tap into your emotional core and will stay with you. That’s why the composer has such an advantage over everybody. That’s why people remember Andre Lloyd Weber’s name, but may not remember Tim Rice.

Amy Powers: Right. Unless they’re in the business.

Steve Cuden: Well, if we have in the business, they definitely know. But I’m talking about the general public. They may not know the name of the person that wrote the lyrics.

Amy Powers: No. And they may assume that it’s him.

Steve Cuden: And they may assume that it’s him. Well, you know, going all the way back into the days of early animation, uh, everybody thought Walt Disney did everything, um, because he only had his name on the movies until later on they started putting credits. And so it’s the same kind of thing where, you know, somebody gets all of the credit for something. Uh, and musicals are Certainly like that. Al right. So what are the biggest challenges that for you are in writing 20 or more songs that have to stick to a theme, be in character, and adhere to a storyline? What are those big challenges for you?

Amy Powers: Um, making sure you don’t sound like the same voice when it’s different characters.

Steve Cuden: Very good.

Amy Powers: That’s. I would say that’s the first thing in writing a musical, that there’s enough differentiation and you have to keep hammering it home with your collaborators.

Steve Cuden: And are you hoping when you’re writing a musical that there is already a really good, strong storyline so that you can find those characters and you can find that stuff? Or have you worked on musicals in which there really wasn’t much of a story and you’re just sort of finding everything with everybody?

Amy Powers: I have worked on things where you’re finding it, and it’s no fun. It’s so much better to have the bones already there than to be trying to build the bones in the songs at the same time.

Steve Cuden: So there, once again, the book writer is getting. Doing all the labor up front, and everybody else is trying to figure out how to make that work.

Amy Powers: That’s why it’s really nice to do a thing that’s already been successful in another genre, like dangerous liaisons, like Dr. Chicago. Right. Um. Um. Or it could be something that’s successfully created mostly before you get there. Like, I did maybe 10 years of, uh, Barbie movies, all the Barbie musicals that a whole generation of girls grew up with. Uh, I worked on with Megan Cavallari again. They wanted someone who is musical theater esque when we started. And so that’s how that collaboration started. And then, um, there was a great corporate guy who was also a songwriter before he was in corporate, named Rob Hudnutt, and he would work with us and sometimes, um, a pop guy named Gabriel Mann. And we would do these things, um, as they were having. As they were doing drafts of the story, we got to say, okay, we think you need a song here that can do this. This is what we think the characters should be expressing. This is the point of it, blah, blah, blah. So sometimes it can be really exciting to be more in the creative process when it’s like taffy, but sometimes it’s better to have the whole structure laid out there.

Steve Cuden: So then what is your technique or method for song spotting? How do you find those places where you. This should be a song, not dialogue. Do you have a technique for that?

Amy Powers: It’s intuitive. It’s emotional and intuitive. I think the more you do the More, you know, um, sometimes, uh, this is really crazy, but in the Mattel things, they wanted us to be able to sell dolls. That was the point.

Steve Cuden: Imagine that.

Amy Powers: Imagine that they were making the entertainment to sell the dolls. So we definitely had to have certain things for certain characters that were going to be run offff in the millions and kids could walk home with them, uh, in their baskets, of course, have them delivered to now to know by Amazon. So that was going to be an informative choice.

Steve Cuden: Do you find that you have to do a lot of research to get to the core of a song? Uh, even if it has a story behind it already? Or are you again, is it mostly intuitive?

Amy Powers: Sometimes I. When Michael, Corey and I were writing Zhivago, we were pouring over what was happening on the Russian front with certain. With soldiers, with, you know, what was the attitude towards the royal family? Uh, all kinds of crazy stuff. You don’t always have to do that though. I mean. And that’s what makes it different from pop song too, right? Like I said, snack versus meal banquet.

Steve Cuden: Oh, well, no question. And, uh, when you’re doing the meal banquet, that is, you’re all in and it takes a long time to do it. So you better like what you’re doing or you’ve got a problem.

Amy Powers: And the people you’re doing it, of course.

Steve Cuden: And Thep, naturally, if you don’t like the people you’re doing with it, that’s just miserable. So when you’re working in theater, as you’ve done a certain amount of and in the Barbie world as well, there would be naturally a certain amount of pressure that comes with the job. You come under time pressure, you come under artistic pressure, you come under different various forms of pressure. How do you deal with pressure? What do you do?

Amy Powers: Sleep.

Steve Cuden: Sleep.

Amy Powers: Something’s too much. I just take a nap and then start.

Steve Cuden: Could you do that in the middle of a day when you’re working with people? Could you just go take a nap?

Amy Powers: I’m. Yeah. Sometimes creatives are. We get to be quirky. Right? Um, or has’s this. If you can’t take a nap, take a pee break, walk out of the room. You know what I’m talking about, right?

Steve Cuden: I do.

Amy Powers: Walk out of the room, go m to the bathroom, do whatever. Even if you don’t have to go to the bathroom, just go wash your hands, clearer your head, walk a few steps, get centered back in yourself, and then go back into that situation.

Steve Cuden: I tend to go take a walk.

Amy Powers: I love that too. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can’t.

Steve Cuden: What happens is I get, um, um, balllixed up and just. I need to just have some fresh air and I need to change my. The view, so to speak.

Amy Powers: Right. So, for instance, on Dr. Zhivago, Lucy Simon actually lived in a building overlooking Central Park. So sometimes we would just go to Central Park.

Steve Cuden: Go to Central Park. Well, that’s a very nice place to take a walk.

Amy Powers: It is a great place.

Steve Cuden: All right, so once you have a libretto that you’re happy with, or you’re ready to give to the producers and say, okay, we’re ready to show this to you, which is may come in steps, but it may also come all at one time, what do you then do at that moment to prepare for the next step?

Amy Powers: Um, well, there was a time when, uh, I would say drink heavily, but I don’t see that anymore. But also when you were asking the question, I was thinking, well, actually, it comes out more in parts sometimes. You’ll see, we’ll present a few scenes or. Or the first act or. It’s not. It’s not all, you know, it’s not all or nothing.

Steve Cuden: Well, you know, you’re going to make changes along the way.

Amy Powers: And every time you see it, if you’re reading it, or you see if you have the luxury of having other people, uh, reading and singing for you, a hundred things are going to flood into your head about what you need to do next. So it’s not, um, what do you do to prepare? Expect change. Expect that what you thought was so sacred an hour ago isn’t really. And, um. And that also, ah, as I’m sure you know, being a writer and various genres, you know, you know that the people who are. Who you’re dependent on to produce the work or direct the work or both are going to have very strong opinions and it’s sometimes going to be, um, insistent opinions.

Steve Cuden: Oh, for sure.

Amy Powers: Find a way to do what they are asking, even if it’s not what you necessarily would have chosen yourself just to show them. Here it is.

Steve Cuden: Well, it can be glorious and painful all at the same time.

Amy Powers: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Uh, and, uh, that’s just part of the part and parcel of the job is that you’re going to get notes and some of those notes are going to be painful because you’ve worked long and hard on something and now somebody’s tearing it apart in some way.

Amy Powers: Yes, you’re killing your darlings.

Steve Cuden: They are killing your darlings sometimes. And that really is. That really is powerful. How important important is casting to getting your work right?

Amy Powers: Oh, it’s everything. Um, it changes everything. When you said that the person who popped into my head was, um, Sara Ramirez, who we were lucky enough to have in our dangerous Laison music all the game the first time we did it up, uh, in the Berkshires s. And she walked into the room and owned the role in a way that even we hadn’t ever imagined. She sang one song called Wanting Her More, and my eyes opened up about the truth of this character. The passion, the power and the danger and the essence of this character. Um, and. And that changed the writing and rewriting for future drafts as well.

Steve Cuden: So she influenced the way that you continue to write the work 100%. I think that’s fascinating when, uh, when someone comes in and changes the way you look at your own work and you had no idea that that was coming your way.

Amy Powers: Doing theater is collaborative in every way. You just don’t know who’s going toa unlock more at any time.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s right. And you start out in a group of two or three, writing book music, lyrics. Uh, maybe it’s m more than that, but usually it’s two or three. And then suddenly it becomes many. You’ve got designers, you’ve got the director, you’ve got producers, and all the performers and. And the orchestra and everything else. So suddenly it’s dozens of people are involved, and you’re all collaborating, pulling toward one goal, and that’s to put on the best show you can, hopefully. Well, yeah. Isn’t that. That is the goal, isn’t it? To come off with something that works and have it be great?

Amy Powers: It’s always the goal. But I have been in situations where I didn’t see eye to eye with the director, let’s say, and that. That’s very painful.

Steve Cuden: How did you deal with it? What is your technique for managing that?

Amy Powers: I wish I could say that there was a good way of dealing with that, because when you have put so much time and effort into something and then somebody is taking it in a. In a direction, as a director, let’s say that you didn’t intend. You can’t pretend that it’s. That it’s what you want. I think in that kind of case, the best thing you can do is wait and do another production.

Steve Cuden: M let see your two visions have now crossed in some way that are not conducive to the whole. And so you’re saying, okay, wait it out. Let this thing go out. And I’ll use a word. I don’t really mean in the worst way, but you, you basically are letting it find its way out the door so that you can go find another production.

Amy Powers: That’s right. Because if you believe enough in your material, it’s worth it to recreate it. If for some reason that you couldn’t control, it’s going in sideways to your mind.

Steve Cuden: I think that that’s uh, quite valuable advice for people who are creating anything that sometimes you just have to let it ride for a while. You can also, and there are many, many stories of people just going at each other and bumping heads for a long time.

Amy Powers: Oh yes. If you were that kind of person. I’m a pacifist in by nature. You won’t find me in the ring much. I will go to. I shouldn’t say that I’ll go to the map for my lyrics, but if I see that the power structure, the dynamic is uh, uh, one in which it’s impossible for me to win, I’m not going to fight. Right.

Steve Cuden: You’ll sit back and find some smart way to get them to see what you are thinking, hopefully.

Amy Powers: Or I’ll just have to reinvent that work some other way some other time. What I don’t want to do is waste my life energy fighting impossible fights. I’ll fight aossible fight.

Steve Cuden: Well, you’re going to defend your work, but you’re not going to um, bring harm to yourself in doing it.

Amy Powers: Not emotional harm.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, that’s what I mean.

Amy Powers: Yes.

Steve Cuden: Well, hopefully nobody’s actually physically harmin you.

Amy Powers: It was 50.

Steve Cuden: This was the greatest musical ever written. As they pounded one another into the ground. Let’s talk for a moment about no degree required. Tell the listeners what that’s about. What is network marketing and how are you involved in it and why did you write a book about it? Okay, what is network marketing?

Amy Powers: Uh, a very smart way for people, including creative people since that’s probably who’s listening to your uh, podcast, uh, for people to create additional revenue in this crazy time financially in the world. So network marketing is uh, it’s a very old model that many companies have renewed and are using now to great effect, especially with online sales where uh, you become a representative, an independent representative for a company that hopefully that aligns with your values and what you’d like to do and use in life. It could be a service, it could be products, um, and uh, it allows you to be part of something bigger without having to create the thing yourself, which is what I think is so genius. I was for instance offered an opportunity to get into a network marketing company uh, back in 2010, and I had been seeing both my and my, uh, independent film producer husband’s financial w going up and down and up and down because we couldn’t control the basic economy and we certainly couldn’t control what was going on, uh, in the world at large. It was sort of like, what’s happening now with the strike? Right?

Steve Cuden: Yes.

Amy Powers: With the writer strike.

Steve Cuden: And, um, Amy is talking about right now while we’re recording this show. We’re in the middle of. The Writers Guild of America has struck against all of the producers.

Amy Powers: Right. So some people don’t have any work. So I was brought this opportunity and I thought, this is really genius. Here’s a company that’s offering things that I use every day, versions of them that I think are really valuable. A business that I can just plug and play into, um, where I’m not creating the company. There are other people invested in creating and growing the company and making the products and delivering them and all this other stuff. And all I have to do is open my mouth and share, which I’d probably be doing anyway, because naturally, as humans, that’s what we do. Um, so what I was able to do, which was really great for my musical career, was to start to create this, uh, other stream of revenue part time while still writing, but take the pressure off the writing. Right?

Steve Cuden: Sure.

Amy Powers: So it’s totally different place. It’s not complicated. Network marketing companies are not complicated or expensive to join. You just have to do the work and really grow yourself to grow your business. But I was able to keep writing at a time when I might have had to do something like, God forbid, take a day job. Which was something I wasn’t interested in doing.

Steve Cuden: Sure. After years of working as an artist and making money at it, you don’t really want to go back to a 9 to 5.

Amy Powers: That’s right. That’s right. So, um, then I got very excited about it because I saw, oh, so a lot of people I know need this kind of thing. And then, uh, I grew a big team. I got to the top of my company, blah, blah, blah. But during the, um, pandemic, I felt that same feeling about, I have to do this to write a book. As I did when I had started writing lyrics. Something happened one day and I woke up and I thought, I must write this. So I did.

Steve Cuden: Did you feel like you were giving back to the community in some way?

Amy Powers: I would. More. Call it paying forward.

Steve Cuden: Paying it forward.

Amy Powers: Because a lot of the people who will read this book are already in the industry. And it’s great. And it’s rewarding for me to get feedback from people saying, thank you so much for showing me this way of thinking. Um, and for validating network marketing, which a lot of people have been quite suspect about, somehow got a bad rap back in the day. But it’s a super smart thing to do and it’s totally legal.

Steve Cuden: Well, because people used to talk about it as being a pyramid scheme.

Amy Powers: Yeah. It’s not. Those are illegal, right?

Steve Cuden: They’re illegal, yes.

Amy Powers: So it’s not possible.

Steve Cuden: Um, but that’s. You were saying what gave it a bad rap is back in the day people thought of it as some kind of a, ah, con job. But it’s not.

Amy Powers: No, it’s. It’s somebody offering you the chance to do something really smart. Right. So I did feel like it was giving back, but also, um, I’m offering something to people who might never have thought about it before. And I realized that the thing that made me different than most people in network marketing is I did have, you know, a Harvard law degree, a Columbia Business School degree. And so there was a certain kind of, uh, validation, for lack of better word, like if I can do this, you can do this. You know, it’s real. You could think about this. And um, in fact, that’s what happened for a lot of people who’ve read it.

Steve Cuden: And uh, when you started to sit down to write the book, I’m curious about your process in writing the book. Did you work from an outline? Did you figure out what the chapters would be? How did you conceive the book?

Amy Powers: Well, um, that’s a great question, Steve. I actually, the one thing I did that was, I think the smartest thing is that I got a book coach. Got a fabulous book coach. Her name is Kim O’Hara. Um, and she’s, ah, former film producer actually. So she thinks in story.

Steve Cuden: Right.

Amy Powers: She took my desires and helped me form a book that was part memoir, part how to. And I really credit her with helping me think through that. And just like it was, uh, a lyric draft, we batted things back and forth over and over and over. I cannot recommend her highly enough.

Steve Cuden: Wow. So in other words, it was helpful to think of it or construct your book as if you were constructing an actual story.

Amy Powers: Sure. And also, dare I say a song like this is one of the songs of my life.

Steve Cuden: Well, songs tend to be stories too.

Amy Powers: Yeah. Yeah. And the thing that I’ve learned through my network marketing career, because it is a personal growth journey as much as it is, uh, uh, A journey into business because you can only grow your businesses as much as you’ve grown personally. But what I learned is that you really have to, uh, allow a new story to come through you, to define you. Right. So many people I know are stuck in that place of oh, I used to be fill in the blank. I could never fill in the blank. You know, um, I’m not the kind of person who fill in the blank. Right. I had to get over those demons in myself. Well, now I know other people to how to tell a different story.

Steve Cuden: People, myself included, tend to put your own obstacles in the way for whatever reasons, various reasons. And you have to overcome your own obstacles.

Amy Powers: Right, right. And you have to, uh, you can’t b as yourself or you can, but then you’re not going to get anywhere. And what I love about network marketing is that it’s a community thing. If you’re with the right company, you have a whole community of people with you looking to guide you. Um, not so much in music sometimes because people see it as if you get this. I don’t. But in Network one, it’s not a zero sum game.

Steve Cuden: It’s a different form of what I think of as competition. In the arts there is a competitive edge to the arts. You’re saying network marketing, there’s less competitive edge, is that right?

Amy Powers: There’s no competition because there’s room for everybody. I don’t know the same people. You know, you’re not going to talk about something the same way. I will. Everybody’s out in the world buying stuff, uh, or getting services. There are some insurance companies that are network marketing companies. There are um, obviously things like my company is a health and wellness company. Right. It’s clean products, it’s vegan stuff. But many, many other kinds of companies out there. You can get your dishwasher detergent from a network marketing company. You know, it’s everything. And so it’s big enough for everybody.

Steve Cuden: Is part of the key to latch onto, uh, products that are constantly being renewed, replenished.

Amy Powers: Yeah, that’s the thing. I, for me anyway, there are companies that do a one and done thing. Like I know a water filter company that’s a network marketing company and you buy one, that’s it. But it’s very high priced. Right. Um, I love the idea that you would be using what I call daily consumable products because then everybody’s going to shower or everybody’s going to eat or drink something every day or everybody needs this kind of stuff and they’re going to go back and order it again. Like if there were, I now have two dogs. If there were a dog food network marketing company, I d probably want to look into that.

Steve Cuden: Well, because dogs got to eat. Yeah, among other.

Amy Powers: Three times a day.

Steve Cuden: Among other things. All right, so let’s spend one moment talking about Amy sent Me. What is that?

Amy Powers: Oh, Amy sent me is another thing that just came to me. And, um, largely because I have met so many people over the years in all these different, ah, arenas that I’ve been in. And I very often realize that somebody in one place could be valuable for somebody in another place to know. And, um, it was finally made clear to me that there’s a business value to this. And I get so excited about the things that my friends and the people that I meet have to offer in the world. Um, that I just decided to put everybody together. And so I created this company, Amy sent me, uh, as a way to communicate the range of things that people I know are doing and offer them to people who might be looking. I call it Servers and Seekers. So I know a lot of people who are serving the world in a certain way and I certainly know a lot of seekers. I just don’t know who’s seeking what from what server at what time. I just know that my job is to connect them. So I’ve started doing that, uh, locally here in la. But also I have a way for people to just write to me and join a newsletter. Um, it’s exciting to me. So it’s anything health and happiness related. Right.

Steve Cuden: So you’re like a concierge? Essentially, yes.

Amy Powers: I introduce people, I recommend, I listen to what people are looking for, I ask them if they write to me, I ask them a couple of questions and then I can personally recommend things. And then I also offer things out to everybody else you never know who is looking for. Like an, um, example, um, I met someone through my network marketing company who’s a fellow vice president who also has decided that she’s becoming a sober coach.

Steve Cuden: Right, Right.

Amy Powers: Fantastic thing. There were a lot of people these days who are, uh, looking to dip their toes into sobriety or, uh, gray area drinking, as it were. So this is one example. So I was able to offer her program to everybody I knew. Some people I knew decided that they were going to take her program. It’s an online thing. Right. And she can coach them. But I also have a friend, uh, who has retreats that she runs in Costa Rica for yoga. I know people who do pet photography. I know just whatever, whatever comes into my world that I think could be valuable to other people in terms of bringing their joy level and satisfaction level up, uh, in the world I’m going to offer it.

Steve Cuden: And so it’s taken you probably most of your life to gather all these people and all this information.

Amy Powers: Yes, but I finally have something to do with it.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s what I’m saying. But if you tried to do that when you were 20 years old, it probably wouldn’t have worked very well.

Amy Powers: No, uh, not at all. And I think because I was in all these competitive places, first law, then songwriting, uh, I think even though you are collaborative in writing a song, there’s definitely that. Oh, yeah. But what about that other team? So and so and so and so. All that made me not understand or not see so clearly that we’re all really here to serve each other. Um, now at my age, some people are retiring. Uh, I feel like I’m just getting started because I’m so excited about what I think I can contribute through this connection.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that’s really great. And how would people contact you at Amy sent me.

Amy Powers: Um, they can email me at amy am y lyn l y n n eowersmail.com and I’ll send them back something about Amy sent me, um, that they’ll be able to sign up with.

Steve Cuden: Excellent. So I’ve been having the most marvelous, fun conversation with Amy Powers for a little more than an hour now. We’re gonna wind this, uh, show down. And, you know, clearly you have met tons of people and worked with an enormous number of people in the business. And I’m wondering if you have a story that you can share with us that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat, oddball, or just plain funny.

Amy Powers: How’s this for quirky? This is about, uh, the spiritual dangers of being a lyricist, I guess you would say. When I was summoned to London to work with Andrew Lloyd Weber on Sunset Boulevard, it really was summoned. I got to his house the first night, and he lived in, um, Kensington Garden. Very, very posh area. And I’m asleep, dead asleep in my room because of jet lag. And I wake up in the middle of the night, and there is definitely a presence at the foot of my bed. Something weird is happening. Terrifying, as a matter of fact. Scary like a ghost. Um, and I don’t even believe in ghosts. I was so freaked out, I couldn’t sleep the rest of the night. And the next morning, um, I was speaking with Andrew’s driver, who has lived there from time to time. When Andrew Was gone. And I said, I know this is crazy, but I feel like there was a ghost in my room last night. And he said, oh, yeah, we know about that. We’ve had this place exorsized three times already. Can’t get rid of it.

Steve Cuden: Did you see the ghost?

Amy Powers: No.

Steve Cuden: Just felt it.

Amy Powers: Yes. And. And then that guy went on to tell me all kinds of crazy stuff that had happened in the house that proved the existence of the ghost. You know, it was a. It was a place with, uh, an elevator. And. And, uh, he was there alone. And one time, his newspaper, which he had left on the bottom floor, suddenly, when he got up to the top floor, was in the room, uh, in front of him, uh, ye. When he was doing the crossword in. Right. Like, it was very. That kind of thing. What can I tell you? So there are dangers. Please beware. And, you know, maybe you don’t want to stay in the houses of the people that you’re writing with me.

Steve Cuden: I’m selling that house. If that’s my house I’m selling, it’s going on the market. Wow, that’s a great story. So last question for you today, Amy. Do you have a solid piece of advice or a tip that you like to give those who are starting out in the business, or maybe they’re in a little bit and trying to get to the next level?

Amy Powers: Well, I’d say two things. One, uh, is connect, connect, connect. Because you never know who is the person who’s going to be the right one to make everything in the world open for you. So by connect, I mean go to all the things, research where you can meet people. Like the BMI musical. The workshop was fantastic for me. I also did the ASCAP musical theater workshop. I also did things online. Uh, also. Also also make your life a yes and of connection, I think I would say. And, uh, the other thing I would say is redefine no. So we all have the choice in the story of our lives to say no means this or no means that. No means next. Like, uh, o. That wasn’t the right thing anyway. Do something else. Right. Go on. Or no means, uh, no for now. Come back to it later. Or maybe this person and I will do something later. Right. No means nothing. I don’t care how many people say no. I know what I have as a yes. Right. You can tell yourself any story at all. So choose smart things when you talk to yourself about no.

Steve Cuden: Well, those are two very wise pieces of advice. And I think anybody that’s coming, uh, up in the business needs to learn how to basically say yes and no. And sometimes it’s really hard to say no because you want to please people and may who may want to help you. And, uh, it’s hard to say no to them.

Amy Powers: And it’s hard to say no to them. And it’s hard for no to be said to you.

Steve Cuden: Sure.

Amy Powers: But sometimes you say yes to things that you really should be saying no to.

Steve Cuden: This is true.

Amy Powers: Afraid there’ll be nothing else, but there’ll always be something else.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think anybody that’s been freelancing the arts for in any kind of the arts, tends to say yes to everything that comes their way because they don’t know if it’s going to be the last time they’ll get asked to do something. So, uh, you tend to say yes to everything. And sometimes you have to be just a little judicious about it.

Amy Powers: Yeah. Yeah. Trust your God.

Steve Cuden: Amy Powers, this has been just a fantastic hour on Story Beat. And I can’t thank you enough for coming on with me today and, uh, sharing all of your experiences and wisdom and your life story. Uh, it’s just been terrific.

Amy Powers: Thank you so much, Steve. I had a blast. Um, if you ever want to do a round two, let’s go.

Steve Cuden: Well, we went very well. Might so anyway, as promised, uh, if you would sit back now, please, and enjoy, uh, Amy’s lovely song, the Sands of Time, written with her son, Jasper.

Walking in a cold wind I feel the sun. Yeah. I stuck down in the earthbound heave Always on my, um, mind. Uh, that doubt like a dark cloud falling over my heart. While, uh, it’s lifting all the time. Cause your hands, your face Fill me right up. Uh, yeah. Your smile takes me somewhere far beyond. You’ve come to come to me to be forever mine. I have been waiting Never let you go. Because this is how’find a way to reach back through into the same of time I have been waiting for you lifetime away I, uh. Will be waiting for you anywhere, anytime I hear what you say. This world is a sweet tree. When it’s me and you we speak in a whisper and everything we say comes true. Each day is a new way A beautiful design. Upon the sands of time I have been waiting. Never let you go. Because this is how we’find a way to reach back through into the time I will be waiting for you lifetime’away I will be waiting for you anywhere, anytime I hear what you say. Someday when you miss me. Just turn on this song. Yes. Some hard night when the light is feeling never gone I’ll come to come to you come through this sense of time I will be wa never let you go because this is how we find a way to reach back through into the San time I will be waiting for you lifeime away I will be waiting for you any any time. Hear you say.

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you’re listening to? Your support helps us bring more great Story Beat episodes to you. StoryBeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, Tune in, and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden, and may all your stories be unforgettable.