Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

Susan Gorrell: I love meeting people from all over the world. I love it. I love it when, you know, we’re getting close to the festival and I’m exhausted and I’m just ready, you think, “Oh God, I’m ready to get it over with.” But then you have thousands of people coming, and especially all those filmmakers, and they’re so excited, and they come up to my desk and I’m meeting them. I’ve been communicating, and now I’m meeting them in person. I just love that feeling. I’m so glad for that. 

Announcer: This is StoryBeat with Steve Cuden, a podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment.

Here now is your host Steve Cuden. 

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, Susan Gorrell, has been the executive director of the Julien Dubuque International Film Festival. For more than a decade, this renowned festival has grown under Susan’s direction to become one of the most well-respected film festivals in the indie filmmaking world.

Attracting filmmakers and film lovers from far and wide, Movie Maker Magazine recognized it as one of the 25 coolest film festivals in the world and one of the top 50 film festivals worth the submission fee. The festival is among the top 100 best rated festivals on film freeway.com. Susan is also an indie film producer and co-founder of Oakmill Entertainment.

In 2016, she produced the internationally released feature film Supercon starring John Malkovich, Clancy Brown, Mike Epps, Tyrus and more. Since then, she’s produced multiple indie features, shorts, a TV pilot and even a documentary traveling across the United States in an RV. Susan comes from a musical family that have been in the Christian recording distribution industry for over 40 years.

Her husband Ken, has worked in the film industry for over 30 years as a special effects supervisor on major motion pictures. So for all those reasons and many more, I’m truly delighted to have the gifted producer Susan Gorrell join me today. Susan, welcome to StoryBeat. 

Susan Gorrell: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

I’m excited. 

Steve Cuden: Well, it’s my great pleasure to have you on. So, um, let’s go back in time just a little bit. You clearly grew up in a musical family. 

Susan Gorrell: Yes. 

Steve Cuden: And is that where your interest in show business began in the music business? 

Susan Gorrell: Well, we’ll clarify too. I can’t sing, so I definitely wasn’t thinking I was gonna be a star or anything.

Singing was not in my, um, my bingo card. I can dance pretty good. But, um, yeah, you know, I was very lucky. My mother was a singer, uh, in Ireland. Her and her sister were, um, actually her sister had won the Eurovision contest years ago. Then they had been like a duet. Um, they were gonna be signed to a label, and then my mom chose marriage.

Then of course, um, me. So, uh, they had always been in their family very much so. Um, in the States though, my mother did more on the Christian recording and distribution end, and did very well with that. As far as for distribution, one Christian music was really strong. Mm-hmm. Kind of strong where it’s not as strong, but now it’s back, but.

So I’ve always helped with them. I, we did events, conferences, helped with their artists, and, um, we put on a show, um, called the Unity, unity Awards, kind of like the, um, dove Awards for Christian artists. We did it for Catholic music and other, and we did that for 10 years and it was all over. They put on big concerts and music groups.

So I was very lucky and very blessed. And along with that, my dad was a dentist, so they had, 

Steve Cuden: well, we have something really in common. My dad was a dentist. 

Susan Gorrell: Really? That’s right. You got good teeth. You got good 

Steve Cuden: teeth. It’s, it, it, it’s, yes. And it’s why I can bite really hard. Yes. Um, so that, that puts you into the business of show.

Yes, from very early on you understood what it was like to be around, show people and what it was like to put on a performance and be around, so on. But what got you then interested in movies? ’cause you’ve spent most of your career in movies. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah, I, um, when I got married, um, I spent most of my time taking care of raising the kids at first, so that was always priority.

Bring a mom was extremely important to me and my husband was filming all over the world and so he was gone a lot. And we lived in Florida. Uh, I always did like. Things like, I used to work at Disney and I was a Disney character. Um, wait, wait a 

Steve Cuden: minute. Time, time out. My, my ex-wife was a Disney character 

Susan Gorrell: in, you’re kidding, kidding.

Wow. Wow. She 

Steve Cuden: was the, she was the first Roger Rabbit. 

Susan Gorrell: She must have been between the like five, one to five four height, because 

Steve Cuden: Exactly right. 

Susan Gorrell: You have, I’m five two and you get to do all those sizes. Yes. It. Yeah, I, that’s so funny. Well, dentist boy, I wonder what’s common? 

Steve Cuden: Dentist costume characters. Yeah. So you were doing it from early on as a performer, but yeah.

What was it about movies that attracted you? 

Susan Gorrell: Well, my husband, I have to give credit to him. We, when we moved to Florida, he worked, um, parking cars and he always wanted to be in the movie industry, so it really wasn’t something I thought I’m really gonna do. Um, I’m not as good about stepping forward and, and making things happen.

He was really good at it and he wrote a resume out and kinda lied about, um, what he could do. And this director of a TV show in Universal at that time. Um, super, super boy. He brought him in and really liked him and hired him as a pa, and then he just grew from that and worked into special effects. And then that kind of got me interested.

And then we moved back to Iowa and I was working with my parents, kids, grew up, and I knew that I really liked finding stories that were important to me. Not that they have to be faith-based films, but family films back to the, you know, where you can get together as family. And you know, like the old Indiana Jones movies, those were always good and you can watch together and I loved stuff like that.

So I started kind of looking for material of script or stories that I liked. My husband had just won a primetime Emmy, and a gentleman had approached us about if I would help him to do a documentary on, and at that time I’d done a few shorts and I said, I’ll help you with this documentary across, um, RAGBRAI, across the state of Iowa.

And that was my first thing. So I knew some people in the industry and I hired one of them to help. Help with it. And, um, so I was kind of on a learning and I really enjoyed that. 

Steve Cuden: So it sounds to me a little bit like you fell into it rather than Absolutely. It was something you set out to do. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. More like just by chance.

And I really liked it and I thought, oh, this is really, I wanna do a little more now. 

Steve Cuden: So, so it’s interesting because so many guests, they, you know, when they’re four or five years old, it’s like movie, movies. Tv. Tv. But that wasn’t your case at all? 

Susan Gorrell: No, no. And I liked performing. I was more, I liked public relations.

And talking to people. Never thought I’d get into producing or running a film festival. Not, that was never a my, like, that’s what I wanna do. I really didn’t know What I wanna do was a little bit more parting and enjoying life than focused. 

Steve Cuden: Well then who then did you start to look at and study? Who were your heroes as filmmakers that you could look up to and say, Hey, that’s an interesting way I want to go that direction.

Susan Gorrell: Oh, that’s so funny. I, I gotta say, I don’t think I had any, I don’t. I don’t remember looking so, and going like, I wanna be like that now. I did, if I’m to look at films, I loved Steven Spielberg. I loved how he created these amazing family type films Indeed. And what indeed what he did, and I loved that.

Mm-hmm. Um, so probably, if anything, it would be maybe on that end. But no, but it just really was by chance that I landed into something I enjoyed doing. 

Steve Cuden: So then how did you train to do it? How did you know what to do? 

Susan Gorrell: Well, going with other people. So when I had the other producer come in, I asked a lot of questions.

I watched, I met some other people, and then that documentary that I did. Got me into the film festival, and then through that I met other people and then just asking, met some really good friends that are good producers out of LA and would talk to ’em, well, how’s that work? How do, I mean, for me, I was always good at troubleshooting if things were wrong or how do I work?

I was good at. Talking to people and communicating. That’s super important. And I think that’s why, um, you know, I was able to do what I did. I mean, there’s all kinds of different producers, so my producer was bringing things together, working with people, being there if there’s problems working through it.

That was kind of where I end up, um, falling into. 

Steve Cuden: It sounds to me like you’re a very organized person. 

Susan Gorrell: Well, my mother wouldn’t say that, but yes, she’d probably disagree, but yes. 

Steve Cuden: Well, you know, I think it would be pretty difficult to, I don’t think it, I know it for a fact certain that it would be very difficult to produce a movie if you ha don’t have a certain organizational capability.

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: Otherwise it’s just a total chaos all the time. I mean, it’s already chaotic enough as it is. It can’t be more chaotic than 

Susan Gorrell: that. And you know, you have to remember, my husband was growing in the industry. He was working a lot. And um, I learned a lot from people. I met people through him, so was able to learn a lot through that too.

So. 

Steve Cuden: So were you in Los Angeles doing this at the time? No, 

Susan Gorrell: we are mostly in Florida. Then when he in Florida, because back then Phil in Orlando. Yeah. Yeah. They were big back then when there was TA before tax incentives started coming into each state, he, he was gone a lot and I decided I wanted to move back home to Iowa to be near my parents, and we did, and he just traveled all over the world.

Steve Cuden: So he was also doing special effects out of Orlando at first then? 

Susan Gorrell: Oh yeah. Yep. 

Steve Cuden: It was out of Orlando and then 

Susan Gorrell: he started going all over the world. Was 

Steve Cuden: it at Universal Studios Florida? 

Susan Gorrell: Uh, yes. I think a couple. He did like Superboy Swamp things. I don’t know if you remember any of them. Rescue 9 1 1, those kind of stuff.

Steve Cuden: Well, so more, this is bizarre because even more coincidences. I spent a year working at Universal Studios Florida on the theme in the theme park. Oh, you? And that’s where I met, met my ex-wife, who was the costume character. So it’s all, oh my gosh, of a piece. 

Susan Gorrell: It’s all meant to be. That’s hysterical. 

Steve Cuden: It’s like, well that’s the first time that’s ever happened for me.

So it really is quite hysterical. So, alright, so now you have started to produce movies at this point? Mm-hmm. And. You have a, a criterion, which is the fam the, the movies need to have a family angle to them. They can’t be dirty, creepy, horror movies. No. They, they’re going to be somewhat family oriented. 

Susan Gorrell: Yes.

Well, um, it was supposed to be that if, if it was a film that I owned or anything, like I started kind of putting money into some scripts and start finding stuff, then yes, that was my criteria. If I was hired as a producer or doing work, then it was more, I mean, I wouldn’t do anything that was, you know, porn or anything like that.

Right. I mean, anything bad, but like Supercon, um, it’s kind of a running joke in the family because Supercon ended up having a lot of F words and my mom counts them and it’s like this big joke. There was 152 F words in that, and I hear about it all the time. I do want that film that has no F words, so she can’t say anything.

Steve Cuden: Well, did you. Did you select the movie or did it select you? 

Susan Gorrell: We, a friend of mine that we knew, um, had this idea that he pitched to myself and a very good fr another good friend of mine who was gonna be the investor, and he pitched it to us and she just loved it and we went from that, but. It didn’t ha it had a few of that in there, but it, he liked actors to, um, improv more.

And I think a lot of that got thrown into it. And when I did Supercon, once again, I was going in there as learning from a different producer that we brought in, but we had a lot of problems with that producer. So I learned a lot on that movie. A lot. 

Steve Cuden: Isn’t it true? Isn’t it true that you learn a lot on every movie?

’cause everyone is a little different than the last. 

Susan Gorrell: Yes. But what I learned on that one was that you should know a lot of stuff and you should be aware of things. And it was, it was good. But I did, like I said, I’ve learned a lot from it. I learned how to read contracts because I wasn’t as good on that.

And even though you rely on attorneys, I learned to read everything and understood. 

Steve Cuden: That that’s, I’m so glad to hear you say that because I’m a contracts reader too, and I think it’s very important for people in the arts, not just producers, but anyone in the arts, performers and writers and so on, to read contracts, to know what you’re getting into.

Don’t you agree? 

Susan Gorrell: Oh, absolutely. It’s annoying. ’cause sometimes you’re like, what is all this garbage? 

Steve Cuden: All this language 

Susan Gorrell: there is, there is similar language you’re gonna see all the time. Okay. That’s the typical attorney language. But there’s pieces in there that you should know what it means and where your rights are because it came very handy with Supercon, with that particular film.

Steve Cuden: No doubt. And that’s gonna be true for most movies especially where there’s serious money involved. Yes. Um, so what does a producer, what do you do? With most of your time before you go into production, what is it that you’re doing trying to acquire properties, or what else do, what does a producer do trying to get to a production?

Susan Gorrell: Yeah, I think it just depends like. You are, you know, there’s all kinds of different producers that do things. Some are just a specific producer that is a troubleshooter, pulls everything together at the beginning. So let’s say a production. You know, if you’re a big studio, I’m not with studios. I’m obviously indie, right?

So a big studio comes in, they’re gonna hire or have their own producers that are in charge of that project, right? They find the director, they start lining up the cast, they find a line producer who then works on the other, getting all the other, um, uh, below the line. Crew in. Um, and then the, you know, when you start getting to production, things kind of flow.

I mean, it’s like a system. It’s a well-oiled machine, and your job then is producer to make sure that working with the line producer, that’s kind of what I did. Make sure that they’re, you know, we’re staying within budget. If there’s problems, how do we troubleshoot? What are we gonna do? You know, if something’s gonna take us over budget, then that producer’s gotta go talk to investors.

So it just depends for me because I like, if I grab a project or I see something I like, then I might go out and try to find money for it. Mm-hmm. And then when I find money for it, then we’re gonna shoot it. Um, then I would find a director and I would work with the above the line to then the line producer then would start working on the below the line.

Steve Cuden: And, and are you part of the breakdown of the script or do you hand that off to a line producer or unit production manager or something like that? I’m work 

Susan Gorrell: because I’m working indie and to help save money. I do still bring in a line producer, but sometimes then I’ll look over, I’ll look over, I’ll have them do the actual breakdown and then I look over and go, okay, wait a minute.

This, how about this? I think we can save here. And I try to do that or at least talk about it. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, okay, so the, the question that immediately comes to mind from your last comment, which is. I think most people that try to make movies the big bugaboo, at least at first, is how do I get money?

Mm-hmm. What do you do to go find money? Do you have people that you can automatically go to, or is it a constant struggle to find folks? 

Susan Gorrell: Oh, it’s constant struggle because it’s hard. You know, I don’t have access to. People all the time that have big money. Mm-hmm. And, you know, film industry is a huge risk.

And so smaller short films are a little easier sometimes to get, but short films don’t make money. They just maybe help, you know, further your career, 

Steve Cuden: hope you get to the next level. 

Susan Gorrell: Right. 

Steve Cuden: You know, the short film is a, is a sales tool almost. 

Susan Gorrell: Exactly. Exactly. And documentaries don’t really make a lot of money.

I mean, they do a little more now because there’s more platforms for them, but I, I would be more a. I can’t say, yeah, I have tons of access right now. It’s now more people coming to me and saying, Hey, I’ve got this project. And I’ll say to him, I really like the project and I’d be happy to help work with the people and help put your pitch deck together, help put the tools that you need.

But I don’t have access to all the money. I can definitely ask, but I can’t guarantee I can fund this. So they have to go out and find their funding. 

Steve Cuden: Well, they come to you because they know you have expertise in having produced other movies 

Susan Gorrell: and, and, and easy to work with. I’m very friendly, Steve, apparently.

Steve Cuden: I can tell, I can tell you’re, you’re not exactly a holding me at bay. That’s a good thing. Yeah. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. So you mean you need somebody, a producer’s gotta be able to talk to people, be able to communicate, and I think build trust and honesty and, and create that. And I think that’s what helps. 

Steve Cuden: Do you need to go seeking distribution before you go into production?

Susan Gorrell: You know, that’s a great question. I think indie films, it’s hard because you’re gonna have a hard time if you don’t have named. I think there’s things you should do that help with distribution. Um, if you’re able to find the money and you can make, put it together, then at least put a couple named. It doesn’t have to be an Alister, it could be a B, but a couple, you know, name people in there.

So that helps the project to sell. If you are able to work with somebody else at, or find another company that, yeah, hey, we’ll we’ll help fund, we’ll help put it through, we’ll partner with you. But just know that then if it’s your project, you’re gonna lose control of it. It’s probably, whoever’s gonna give the most money is gonna control that project.

Mm-hmm. So then you may no longer have as much involvement as you were hoping for. 

Steve Cuden: Well, what do they, what do you say? Money talks? 

Susan Gorrell: Well, and that’s the thing, you know, I always, if, if you could find it and do it on your own and find some way and have those tools and then, you know, create relationships and try to get ’em, distribution, there’s so many different platforms now to sell your film or to get it out there and make some sort of revenue.

Um, there’s a lot of things you can do on your own. 

Steve Cuden: Tell tell the listeners who don’t know what some of those platforms are that used to not be there. 

Susan Gorrell: Well, even like YouTube itself, people can make money off YouTube. Um, Facebook has a way to do video and make money off that. And then of course, Netflix, Hulu, all those, but they’re harder.

But there’s other ones, like Tuby is out there, although they’re free. There’s a, a fellow or a fellow or something like that because an o that for short films. So, I mean, there’s these platforms. Maybe you’re not gonna get a lot of money off front, but you might get that, get eyes out there. If it does well, maybe it will, you know, start making money.

Steve Cuden: Is there anything you do differently now that you never used to do that, uh, helps to raise that money and raise the interest in the movie? Is there something that you’ve learned along the way that you started out and it was like, oh, this is not working, I’ve gotta do something different? 

Susan Gorrell: Um, that’s a really good question.

I can’t say. Yeah. Um, I think for me, I, well one thing I. Make sure, yes, I would have a named actor, that’s for sure. I would have some sort of name in there or attachment. Um, sometimes you can get those people to do that. If you’ve created a relationship that wanna be part of it, maybe they’ll do it free without what they call a payer play.

Or you have to them and you create that relationship that they love the story as much as you do. I’m lucky through the film festival, I meet a lot of actors and people, so I try not to have to go through a, probably, can I say that through agents? If you could make a WR. Know your own personal relationship, then you’re better off to get through the people.

Steve Cuden: That’s, that to me is, is the ideal is if you can meet someone who’s interested in you, they’ll tell their agent to mm-hmm. To do a deal. 

Susan Gorrell: Yes. 

Steve Cuden: As opposed to them coming to you and trying to sell you somebody. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. That’s, that’s 

Steve Cuden: hard. That’s a whole different thing. Um, we will get to the festival in a little bit, but I want to finish up.

For a while about producing. I’m just curious, do you find yourself researching lots of different movies and different producers and directors and so on as to what it is you want to continue to do? Or is it you’re just sort of freeform about it? 

Susan Gorrell: Freeform. I mean, again, I’m really lucky because my husband works with so many people.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Susan Gorrell: We learn a lot of people through him. Um, I’ve met a lot of people through him and now I’ve carried on my own, uh, relationships with people that I have. So I do a lot of word by mouth. Um, I know one thing that a lot of, I guess I’ll use our, our younger son, he wanted to go to school for film and my husband said, absolutely not.

If you wanna go to school for film, he said, the best thing you can do is let me put you out there. Now, obviously he had his dad, he was lucky, however. What we did instead was gave him a little bit of money that you would’ve maybe had to put in a college education. Gave him less than that to film his own stuff.

Here’s your camera. Mm-hmm. Go out there and start shooting. Let you do the research. He researched a lot and he looked at it and talked to, you know, I mean, you don’t have to know people in the industry to encourage your kids to that. I said, if you wanna go to school, go to college for a career that can make some money and then use film as a side side thing because just because you have a college education.

Very little. Does that make you gonna get a movie? You are not gonna have a film just because of 

Steve Cuden: that. Well, that, that’s a hundred percent true. I, I taught in a university for 10 years and I understand. Oh, sorry. That’s quite okay. I, I think that, and I’ve told many people this, I’ve told parents that come into school the same thing, which is school is not going to give you a career.

What school can do for you is help you mature and learn how to work with others and, uh, to socialize. And it helps you to grow up and to, to get smart in the foundations of the business. Yeah, but you’re gonna learn as much in the first four weeks on a movie as you will in four years in school. That’s right about how to make movies.

Um, so I, I think there’s nothing wrong with going to school. In fact, I encourage people if they think school is for them, that they should go to school. And I also say there’s nothing wrong with not going to school to be in the motion picture industry. Uh, was there a point along the road where you thought to yourself, you know what, I do understand what I’m doing and I am.

Good at being a producer. Did you have an epiphany like that at any point? 

Susan Gorrell: Probably was super con. Um, there were so many things that happened with the producer there that I went originally to learn. I wanted to go and learn from him. I was really excited ’cause he did a movie with Halle Berry and some other people and I thought, oh, I’m really learn from this guy.

He does a lot of movies in Louisiana and about, we were shooting for four weeks. I’d already been in Louisiana like four weeks in pre and then I was like, wow. He, um, realized that he was. Doing a lot of stuff that shouldn’t happen, like double booking our lead actor and not stealing money, but wasteful, wasteful money.

And then I had to cover up stuff and um, then he was ignoring the agents that were calling, that were for the actors. That’s when I went in. I, I, I found that I need to be more assertive. Mm-hmm. So originally I’m trying to learn ’cause I really didn’t know. And then I go into line producer, I said, okay, give me every contract.

I want to see everything I need to get myself, I really need to read. I’ve always relied on attorneys I need to know, and I read everything. Read everybody’s contracts. I read that our, our deal with him, with his company because he was gonna fund the most, but as it was, he wasn’t bringing any money in. And so my friend who invested a little bit had to keep finding more money.

And I said to, um, when I read it, I noticed, and this is what’s so important, that there were three things that he had not done. He didn’t bond the movie, he didn’t have this mean actor, and there’s something else. And because he didn’t do those three things, the contract was all null and void, which meant the movie comes back to us, which then gets you control.

So I immediately went and I had this conversation with his investor and his attorney, and I said, Hey. You don’t own this film? And he said, well, yes. We said, well, you haven’t done, oh we didn’t fund. I said, you haven’t done any funding. Well, we’ve done. I said, no, you haven’t. He goes, yes, we have. I said, you have not.

And I said, and, and according to this contract, you didn’t do these three things. We still own it. This contract’s no and void. And the investor said, is said to his attorney, is she right? And he said, yeah, she is. But it made me realize if I hadn’t known that they could have continued on and that film would even probably, it’s hard to say what would happened.

I know, like, it was hard. The crew wasn’t gonna get paid. I mean, we had to come up a lot, so a lot worse would’ve happened, but by being knowledgeable on contracts and doing what you’re supposed to do, and that’s what I did. And I, I talked to people and communicate with the crew and, and we, it was, you know, that those are things are really important.

Steve Cuden: So at that point you actually said to yourself, you know what? I got this. I know what I’m doing. 

Susan Gorrell: I said to myself that I wanna continue to learn. ’cause I don’t think anybody ever knows everything because I think I, I agree. At that point then you’re, you’re egotistical. 

Steve Cuden: It’s time, it’s time to retire permanently.

Yes. If you get to the point where you think you know everything. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. But I felt more confident in myself. I felt like. Okay. I know what I need to do. I have learned, I know what I won’t, don’t wanna do, but I’m going to continue to make sure I know contracts and can continue to learn. I like learning. I like asking questions, and I think that’s so important.

I like to know stuff. 

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that that’s extremely wise because, uh, it’s all about this journey of learning as you go through whatever it is you’re doing. And the more that you do acquire things become more efficient and easier for you to do. And sometimes knowing too much can also be a problem because you know this is not going to work and then you have to fight everybody that thinks they can.

Right? 

Susan Gorrell: Yes. Oh, that happens quite often. Any, the couple films, no doubt. And like I said, I, I’ve done more indie, I don’t consider. I mean, I, I have the title producer and just probably something else to, I don’t think there’s bigger producers that have been doing major stuff, but I do know that as in the indie world, I respect the budget.

I respect the indie filmmaker, I respect the crew and who we’re working with, and I think those are super important and I’m extremely honest and trustworthy. And those are key elements that make you a good producer, I think, um, especially when you’re in the indie world and everything’s so tight and you don’t have to be really good with your money and your budget and what you have.

Steve Cuden: So we, we’ve mentioned Supercon a couple of times now. Yep. Tell the listeners what Supercon is about if they don’t know. 

Susan Gorrell: Um, super con’s, like the, uh, comic cons. So it’s just a kind of an old. Eighties kind of play on the characters at a comic con. So it’s mm-hmm. 80 goofy. It’s not a award-winning. It’s, but, you know, at Stars like Clancy Brown, um, John Malkovich, Mike Epps, um, it’s funny, I think there’s a lot of things we probably would’ve changed, but I was so focused.

With what was happening with the other producer that I didn’t get to do what I wanted, was to sit and make sure that, for instance, they weren’t having free range of language and it was sticking to kind of what we really wanted. So some of that got changed a little bit, but, 

Steve Cuden: and, and, and thus the 150 F words.

Susan Gorrell: Yes. Yeah. That my mom counts. But, uh, but it was, it was a learning experience. You all have that film you learned from, but it is, it’s got some funny moments. 

Steve Cuden: Did you find in, in working on that movie that working with stars, obviously John Malkovich and, and Clancy Brown are stars, um mm-hmm. Did you find that working with them was different than just working with your friends, your neighbors, and people that you’ve come along who aren’t famous?

Susan Gorrell: Um, yeah, I mean, you always feel more comfortable with your friends or who are, you know, not as famous. Um, but I will say Clancy Brown was lovely and so was John Malkovich. They were both very, very nice. In fact, all the crew that cast, um, Maggie, um, grace, uh, I can see Quentin, um, Tyrus, Ryan Tyrus was lovely.

Ty believe it or not, Tyrus was great. Um, so I mean, they were all was a really nice cast and we were really lucky that way. Mm-hmm. But again, I didn’t get to really. Be with them or focus on them as much, just because I was behind the scenes working on the chaos that was happening. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. So that makes it a little bit more challenging to get to know them, obviously.

Yes. If you’re dealing with, you’re always putting out fires, I guess, on a movie like that. Yes. Um, obviously producing and a movie like that, and all movies basically come with lots of pressure. There’s a lot of, you’re under time pressure, you’re under deadlines and so on. What do you do to deal with pressure?

Susan Gorrell: I am really lucky. I take deep breaths. I try to count to 10 before I yell at somebody. Actually, I’m not a yeller, I’m not a, I’m not, I don’t like confrontation, so I’m more one of just kind of handling it, um, trying to do what, you know, what I can to handle the situation. Super calm was very, very stressful in that sense, but again.

I, I don’t feel like when you have a discussion with somebody that you have to be the winner. I don’t think there’s ever a winner when there’s a discussion. It’s just that, you know, okay, I’m listening to you, but how do we, how do we solve this problem without having these big arguments? And sometimes people, you know, they’re going off, and if you’re remaining calm and handling the situation, sometimes it brings the temperature down.

But if I am on my own and I am, sometimes I, what I do, because I am faith-based, I technically actually would say a quick prayer. I would be like, okay, 

Steve Cuden: mm-hmm 

Susan Gorrell: God, I’m gonna go in this situation that I know it’s gonna be hard for me, but please help me to handle it and say the right words that help the situation.

Steve Cuden: Do you feel that that really changes the equation for you as you do that? 

Susan Gorrell: You know it, what it does is it makes you stop and think for a minute and take those deep breaths and relax. So whether it’s, you know, for people that maybe are like, well, I don’t believe in God or don’t have faith like that, it’s still that moment you’re still saying, okay, give me the strength to be able to handle it.

But now you’ve calmed yourself down before you went out to do the situation. Mm-hmm. So it can work with no matter what. For me it’s, it’s saying a quick prayer and just saying, okay. And it gives me that moment. Just within myself so that I’m ready to go out and handle the situation. 

Steve Cuden: I don’t, and I’ve, I’ve seen lots of stuff in my career.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone solve a problem by yelling at someone. 

Susan Gorrell: No, it’s true. But you know, you hear it on set sometimes, you know? Of course. Yeah. And it just doesn’t do any, doesn’t help the situation. Just makes it worse. And I don’t like demeaning people either. I mean, even if you’re in the wrong, I don’t like to demean you.

Steve Cuden: I would say 99. 99 out of a hundred times when someone is yelling at someone, it means that they themselves are afraid and insecure. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: And if you can step back and go, why are they yelling? 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: Then you can say, what are they? What are they afraid of? Or what are, they don’t want people to know about them at that moment.

Susan Gorrell: That’s right. 

Steve Cuden: And that’s usually where the yelling and screaming comes from. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. I agree. I mean, even this whole situation with that producer. You know, I would get him in. I caught him lying all the time, and then I actually was ending up recording all the conversation so that I could have it, because I’m like, and I found out in Louisiana you could do that and you don’t have to tell them.

So I’m like, okay, this guy’s lying all the time. And I, you know, it’s my word against his. So I just started doing that and caught so much stuff in turmoil and, you know, and, and who knows why he. Uh, you know, I must say bless his soul ’cause I, he is dead now. But, uh, and just to clarify, that’s not from me, that just happened.

Steve Cuden: Well, I’m glad 

Susan Gorrell: to hear that. 

Steve Cuden: I know. I thought we were gonna, I thought we were gonna have breaking news here on the show to today. Oh no. I’ll be on 

Susan Gorrell: 60 minutes. Um, no, I, I just, but yeah, I, because it just was so bad and, um, it was, that was probably the hardest. My first real huge producing job and the hardest that, but I learned a lot.

Steve Cuden: Well, you were forgive the religious term, but that was a baptism by fire. It 

Susan Gorrell: was 

Steve Cuden: absolutely. Alright, so how do you get from you? You’ve done all sorts of different kinds of motion pictures. I sort of no longer call them films because there’s not much film left. It’s mostly on video of some kind. So I tend to call them motion pictures because that’s what they are.

They’re still moving pictures. How do you get from features into docs, which is a whole different thing. I know though it, though it has similarities. Yeah, but it’s a different cat, isn’t it? 

Susan Gorrell: It is. Um, I actually had started with the doc that I did. That was the first thing and then ended up the feature and then I ended up doing some shorts.

Um, and then another, um. Feature and then another doc, and then a TV pilot episode idea that we, uh, concept that we built, um, or filmed. So, yeah, it just, it is a little different. You’re, you’re actually with docs? Well, our docs ’cause they’re indie docs. We’re dealing with a lot less crew. You, you know, your budgets are even tighter.

Um, and it’s funny enough ’cause I just got off a documentary this summer and my first doc that I did was Rag Bri. Taking bicycles across the state of Iowa. So it was a traveling documentary, which is even harder. Oh yeah. And then the one I just got off of was a traveling documentary across the US in an rv.

Steve Cuden: Was it about you 

Susan Gorrell: in an rv? No, no, no, no. Um, we, the crew went on the RV and we interviewed people across the US on different political sides, just asking, are we these hated, nasty people, or do we. I mean on both sides and all this anger, or can we just be friends and have disagreements, but should our politics define our character?

And that’s kind of, we just speak with people all across the US and it was great. 

Steve Cuden: I’m glad to hear you’re doing that because it’s bugged me for some time that, that we’ve become. People who disagree and are disagreeable when you should be able to disagree and not be disagreeable. Yeah. Um, so when you’re making a doc, compare it to when you’re making a narrative feature.

What are the big differences aside from money? 

Susan Gorrell: Right. So Crew, I mean for, and I can only base it on the experiences I had. So crew is a big difference. A feature film, you’re gonna have a lot more crew positions. You’re gonna be, you know, probably two cameras, you’re gonna, maybe three, you’re gonna have bigger lighting.

Um. For the docs that I did, they were more like run, go and run, run and go. I mean, you’re, you had one camera, you know, maybe a couple PAs your sound. Um, one sound guy, but not a lot of lighting. You based it off, you know, natural lighting as much as possible. It is a different, there you don’t really, like for us, we didn’t really have like our, you don’t have a script supervisor to make sure you’re staying the same each day and you don’t have, um, an ad.

We didn’t. Because couldn’t afford it. Uh, so, you know, I was doing the scheduling. I didn’t have a locations person. We didn’t have a transportation person, which you would. So we had our RV driver and then I was handling all the locations we went to and how we got there. And you know, I had to make sure if we needed any permits, so you normally would have other department heads doing that.

And this, as a producer, I was doing all that. 

Steve Cuden: So I wanna make, make sure I understand the movie’s, not about the rv. For being in there, it’s, you were in doing a dock by going across the country in an rv. Yeah. And the dock was about people and why we’re at odds. 

Susan Gorrell: Yes. But we did the crew itself, there were eight of us for this documentary.

We were kind of a cast as well, so it does show us in the rv. We do have blogs we did along the way, and then we had certain towns we stopped in, interviewed, and then we also did a lot of fun stuff to show that. The things that we were doing had nothing as fun and friends. ’cause the crew was a mixed bag of political valid visions.

We didn’t even talk politics on the bus really. Um, but we, we then showed up. We could all still have fun. We played baseball together. We went to an escape room. Found out that the Democrats were smart in their Republicans. That was very disappointed.

It wasn’t about the. Political position of the 

Steve Cuden: crew. Mm-hmm. 

Susan Gorrell: It was about having fun as friends, you know, and that was the whole core idea. And then, then we met all these people on the way. 

Steve Cuden: D does this movie have a name yet? 

Susan Gorrell: It’s called Bridging the Gap. 

Steve Cuden: Bridging the Gap. And do you have any sense of when it’ll be out?

Susan Gorrell: Um, they’re in editing right now, so probably in January, February maybe. It’ll probably start its festival run, hopefully. Alright. 

Steve Cuden: Because this show lasts forever, January or February of 2026. 

Susan Gorrell: I’m sorry. Yes, 

Steve Cuden: we’re, we’re recording this show in August of 25, and this show will be available to people for a very long time, so that’s why.

That’s great. That’s true. I 

Susan Gorrell: thank you. 

Steve Cuden: When you, when you’re creating that, then did you start with a. Beyond a concept, was there an outline or something that you were trying to achieve as you were going along the way? 

Susan Gorrell: So the executive director who was, uh, who, executive producer. So he was the money guy, he was also the director.

It’s first time directing. He wanted to, um, it was his idea. He is, uh, he was very liberal, more sense in that, in Democrat. Um, and he wanted, this was the idea I wanted to go across. He was having a hard time and just hated hearing all the hatred. And he wanted to go cross and do this. I’ve worked on, he’s had me produce another movie of his before, before COVID.

Um, he hired me as his producer and I did another movie and then he asked me to do this with them and I said, sure, I’ll find you. He said, I need a conservative person. I said, I’ll find you somebody. He goes, no, I really want you to do it. And I said, well, I’m not very political. I don’t like having political conversations.

I feel like that’s a very personal thing and, and. I’m probably more independent. I kind of, it depends. Depends who’s got the policies and what I feel. And I said, but I would be more conservative thinking. And he said, yeah. And I said, and I don’t argue. He goes, no, that’s why I need you. ’cause he he’ll say, and I’m not saying anything, he won’t say, he’s very like high strung and.

He always said, I hope by the end of this documentary my crew still like me and they didn’t. So it was, it was a tough shoot, but he’ll be the first to say it. 

Steve Cuden: I Is that because he didn’t know what he was doing or from the politics? 

Susan Gorrell: Oh, oh no. The funny thing is. You would’ve thought, oh, it’s gonna be the politic politics had nothing to do with the problems with the crew.

It was his over overachieving, micromanaging, um, his own issues and trigger issues he had, but nothing political. It was nothing 

Steve Cuden: political. Interesting. So he, he, he was, he was learning on the job. Yes. Yeah. You had a goal in mind. Of course, in a documentary, you don’t really know what you’re gonna get till you get out there and shoot it, and then you’ve gotta come back and put it together, which is where you are now you’re at the editorial process.

Yeah. Do you then try to script it in a way where you say, okay, we know we’re gonna start here. We’ve recorded all this, we’re gonna start here and get to there. 

Susan Gorrell: Yes. And he had an idea and then he, we mapped out certain towns we wanted to go to. So he knew, he knew he wanted to get across. I laid out, well, here, let’s go here actually.

Um, my mom, she helped. She, I gave her a job and I said, lay out, where are some interesting places to go to? Mm-hmm. We knew we wanted to go to Dubuque, Iowa, ’cause that’s where I’m from and I knew I wanted to be in the middle and Donaldson, Iowa, where my family live and I’m, and do major fireworks ’cause my husband does, has a pyro license and could do big fireworks.

Wow. You’re gonna do this on my parents. They live out in the country on their property and then go from there. We knew we wanted Waxall and then, uh, North Carolina, ’cause that’s where my brother lived and he was our RV driver. Then we went up along the East coast, so we knew that. And then Dave, um, the executive producer, he the director, he kind of said, okay, he wanted to, you know, let’s stop here.

Let’s see these people. I wanna go to Grand Canyon. So then I had to rearrange things. And then we worked with an amazing group called Braver Angels. And Braver Angels is an organization that has Republican, democrat, and Independent. And they get together and they, they are going out and trying to get people to just.

Get along, you know, and not make. Like what the, what the documentary was doing. Mm-hmm. And they lined up all kinds of interviews for us along the way. So sometimes that kind of dictated where we might have to travel down to. 

Steve Cuden: Interesting. So I, are you able to then take the movies that you’ve made and are making and put them into your own film festival?

Susan Gorrell: I don’t like to do that. So it was a great question. 

Steve Cuden: Yeah. Well, you know, it’s a, it’s a, seems like it’d be a natural thing. So let’s talk about festivals, ’cause this is a big part of your life too. Um, how did you become involved in the Julianne Dubuque International Film Festival? 

Susan Gorrell: So from that first documentary I did Rag Bri.

Um, I was speaking up in, uh, in Des Moines, I think it was, and the co-founders of the film festival. It was their first year of, I call it j diff to shorten Julian Dubuque International is so long. So they came and they heard me speak ’cause I talked about my husband and then Rag Bri and they asked if what I put that film into their festival.

It was their first year. And I said, okay, sure. And then they asked would I come to Dubuque? And I’m like, oh, I, I go to so much stuff with my husband because he had just done the Emmy and we go to premieres through his work. I’m like, oh, I asked my son, my younger son, I said, oh, do you wanna go to this little film festival in Dubuque with me?

And he said, sure, we’ll go. And, and when I got to Dubuque. I said, gosh, this, this city’s beautiful. It’s right on the Mississippi. It has these beautiful glacier cliffs. I call ’em. I mean, it was gorgeous and the people were lovely and I saw they had so much support with the arts. And so I told the co-founders, I said, listen, I, I can help my husband films all over.

I am kind of in between stuff. I said, I’d be happy to come and come to Dubuque. I lived three hours south from Dubuque at that time. Said, I’ll come into town and help you. I can help build, build maybe more panels for you and bring people in. ’cause we knew a lot of film people and they said that would be great.

So they had their first year. So the second year I was on the board, brought people in, um, the third year, then one of the co-founders quit. They got in a fight and the one co-founder quit. So they asked me to be a senior manager, and then the next year the other co-founder was just like, I don’t really, it’s not for him.

And so he left and they offered it to me. So it was definitely not planned. I felt like I was just pushing everybody out. And there I was, but I’m all outta the office. It’s just me. But it, it wasn’t meant to be like that, but it just kind of 

Steve Cuden: flow like that with no plan to do that. It just happened that way.

Susan Gorrell: Never just happened, but again, all my skills from when I was young in planning I’d planned events. Mm-hmm. I’ve been organized things. I bring people together in producing the stuff. I did all of that together. Was able to said, okay, I can do this. It’s just the festival’s, like one giant event. And then, you know, you got all these little things happening and I knew how to get people in the film ministry come.

I knew, hey, this is how we can do that. I’m good with PR and with people very hands-on and, and I knew I worked with them on their budget. So all those things, um, you can have all that, but in the end it’s the city itself and the people. That also kept people coming. 

Steve Cuden: So why is it called cool? What is cool about the festival?

Susan Gorrell: I think ’cause it just has a lot of stuff going on first. The city itself. I mean, Al Capone used to stay there. I mean it’s got a lot of history, so it’s got some cool stuff and I think it’s, we do a lot of fun things. Um, a lot of different events. We really make it exciting and make it for filmmakers to meet each other.

Some leave and collaborated. Um, I think that’s at that time, ’cause it was years ago when they did that. It, I think it’s just a combination of all that. 

Steve Cuden: Is it only 

Susan Gorrell: indie films? We’ve had some studio, but you have to be, you can already had distribution, so you can’t be a big film out there having distribution.

You have to be on here. Mm-hmm. But it doesn’t have to be any film. 

Steve Cuden: And, and it’s, it’s all kinds of films. I assume it’s narratives and docs and everything else. 

Susan Gorrell: All genres. Yep. We accept 

Steve Cuden: including an animation, shorts, all, all that. 

Susan Gorrell: Yep. Animation shorts. We, we, we have a whole team that reviews. I look at them all and then we have teams, I give ’em to teams to look at and score, and then from that I narrow down and get the final scores in of what’s.

What’s gonna make it in the final festival? 

Steve Cuden: So what are the biggest challenges in putting on a film festival every year? 

Susan Gorrell: Fundraising. You still gotta more about 

Steve Cuden: money. 

Susan Gorrell: Yep. It does boil down. I mean, you got, I mean, I got a city very supportive and I think for me, a challenge for me is that I don’t get bored.

I love doing, but I mean, you’re doing the same thing when I have to remind myself and everybody should remind themself just because you’ve been doing it over and over and over. Doesn’t mean it’s not new and fresh to somebody else who hasn’t been and done it. 

Steve Cuden: Sure, 

Susan Gorrell: sure. And it’s you as your person, you know, um, how you invite people and make them feel wonderful and coming.

That’s what’s super important. 

Steve Cuden: So a lot of it’s about hospitality at the same time. 

Susan Gorrell: Lot of hospitality. I do a lot of communication with filmmakers, like when they email, I do all my own personal emails to everybody. I keep in contact with them. Um, I think it’s super important and I like that. And you asked me if I about my films.

My, if I do a film, first of all, I don’t make a big deal about it. I don’t like to promote, oh, I, it’s, it’s something I produce. I don’t think that’s right to do that. And it has to submit, just like any other film, it still has to submit. So when Bridging the Gap is done, if it’s good enough, it’ll submit and it has to go through the process and be voted in.

It just doesn’t get a place just because I produced it. 

Steve Cuden: How many judges do you have? 

Susan Gorrell: Um, I actually have about a hundred. So I have Wow. Three teams that have probably 20 to 30 people each. And on that team they have to watch 10 people on that team have to watch each film. Mm-hmm. So every film has been watched by those 10 plus myself, so it’ll have 11 scores and views.

Steve Cuden: That’s interesting and, and you’re obviously gonna receive lots of movies from first time filmmakers and filmmakers with very little money. How do they stack up usually to compete with people that have more experience and have more money? 

Susan Gorrell: Great question. Um, I think the. If the, A couple things. One, if they, yes, you can always tell the difference, but I’ve seen so many filmmakers in films that didn’t have a lot of money, that really put what they did have into probably sound lighting and acting, and those really made it solid and a good story.

You can have a very simple story, but is it good? Does it have a reason? Is it telling? So, and if your actors are good, you could have two people in a movie. And if those actors are super good and really compelling, I’ll watch them. I’ll be like, oh my God. They don’t even have to do anything. If they’re in the room, they’re walking, but they’re so good.

You’re drawn into that story. Um, and then you don’t go too long unless you’re Marvel. You should not be doing a movie. It’s two hours long. You should be at about an hour and 20 minutes most when you are a dialogue driven movie. Um, because otherwise then you just get bored after that, the viewer does.

Steve Cuden: Well, there’s an old adage that no scene is too long, as long as you’re engaged in it and no scene is too short. If you’re not. 

Susan Gorrell: Very good. I like that. I’m gonna, I’m gonna take that, I’m gonna write back, 

Steve Cuden: so I’m, I’m gonna, you can steal it. You’re welcome to it. Um, I will not come back and ask you for anything for it.

Susan Gorrell: Great. Thank you. 

Steve Cuden: I’m gonna ask you a question then, because you brought it up, uh, that I ask lots of guests that I really love the answers to. I get lots of wonderful, wonderful answers. What for you makes a good story. Good. 

Susan Gorrell: Yeah. Um, well, I like comedy. I think it’s also in the eyes of the what? The beholder, the reviewer.

So to me, what makes it good if it’s not too long. I don’t like it just drawn out. And if you’re repeating the same stuff over and over in the movie or documentary, especially for a doc, if you have a bunch of talking heads and it’s the same things, it’s too much. Mm-hmm. I like comedy. For me, I love to laugh and feel motion, so I feel like good stories need to be impactful.

And you know what also makes that story good? Does the music fit it? Hmm. Does the Mu the Music can help carry a story and make it, maybe it wasn’t a good story, but that music really drew you in and 

Steve Cuden: mm-hmm. 

Susan Gorrell: Put it together for you. So that’s super important and what I feel is good. 

Steve Cuden: I’ve been to many festivals and one of the hallmarks of bad festival movies is Bad Sound.

Susan Gorrell: Yes. Yes. I was saying sounds important. People 

Steve Cuden: think it’s not important at all. You know it’s an afterthought. Mm-hmm. But in fact, it should be one of your primary thoughts because the sound can make a gigantic difference. 

Susan Gorrell: Yes, it can. And absolutely agree and I still am A huge thing too, it, you don’t have to have a-list actors, but by golly, don’t put somebody who’s a bad, bad actor.

Keep because one bad actor in a film can really throw you off the story. Make sure they can act and you don’t have to pay oo bucks. There are a lot of great actors out there. 

Steve Cuden: Well, you can have the most wonderful scene in the world with the best actors, and if the mic drops into the middle of the frame, it’s no goods.

So it’s that one bad. It’s that one bad element. 

Susan Gorrell: Yep. The 

Steve Cuden: bad, a bad actor, bad sound, bad camera work. Something’s way off that, that can throw you out of the movie. And the, the one thing that you can’t do with an audience is take them out of the, their being in it. 

Susan Gorrell: That’s right. Nope, that’s right. And that’s the problem.

You do get a lot of that with, with a lot of films that might not make it in is because they, something like that happens. 

Steve Cuden: Absolutely. So what do you find is the most fulfilling thing about doing the festival? 

Susan Gorrell: I love meeting people from all over the world. I love it. I love it when you know, we’re getting close to the festival and I’m exhausted and I’m just ready.

You think, oh God, I’m ready to get it over. But then you have thousands of people coming and especially all those filmmakers, and they’re so excited and they come up to my desk and I’m meeting them. I’ve been communicating, and now I’m meeting in person. And I love that. That to me, is so fulfilling that they feel that they feel like we’re best friends when they get there and that they’ve known me forever.

And now at this point some have, um, but. I just love that feeling. I’m so glad for that. And, and, but yet they also know just because you were in the festival a couple years ago doesn’t mean you’re always going to get in. It is a fair process and I’m proud of that, and that’s fulfilling to know that those.

Filmmakers deserve to be there. 

Steve Cuden: You, you’ve told us tons of things about in the festival world what’s good and bad and so on, what works and doesn’t work. Uh, what is it that you recommend to young filmmakers to do to get into film festivals? What should they concentrate on? Is it great story? Is it wonderful camera work?

What do you recommend? 

Susan Gorrell: Um, I think in production in the final, I think those elements that we talked about, make sure they have decent actors in there, make sure their sound is good and their lighting is good. Mm-hmm. I think those three things and take some time for it and make sure it’s not too long.

Because again, if you are a dialogue driven film and most indie films are can’t afford special effects, they can’t afford all that. Right? 

Steve Cuden: Right. 

Susan Gorrell: Then you can only hold your audience for so long and so you think they need all this info. But they really don’t cut back to what you really need. That carries a story because when it gets past a certain length, people lose interest and they forget all the good stuff about, then they’re just bored.

So keep your, keep your length down. Less is better. 

Steve Cuden: Your entire career, it seems to me is very largely based on collaborating with others. Like I’m a writer and I spend a lot of time alone in a room, but you spend a lot of time interacting with others. What makes a good collaboration work? 

Susan Gorrell: Uh, not thinking that you’re the boss, you’re in charge.

So even though maybe you are, I know like with the festival, just because I’m the ED doesn’t mean that everybody else’s position is important. It is. I mean, I’ve got a lot of volunteers. I have a hundred volunteers. It’s being able to work with everybody and be on the same level and not think, just because you maybe have a higher title makes you better than those people.

’cause it doesn’t, everybody’s working hard for that same collective. Mm-hmm. 

Steve Cuden: Um, 

Susan Gorrell: final. And that’s important I think. 

Steve Cuden: So that as a collaborator, you’re on the same. On the same page. 

Susan Gorrell: Yep. And respect, I find, I feel like I can respect everybody. Everybody’s working hard and trying and that’s really what’s important.

Steve Cuden: I think that that’s really great advice. Well, I’ve been having just the most marvelous, fun conversation for not quite an hour now with Susan Gorrell, and we’re gonna wind the show down just a little bit. Wondering, you’ve told us all these incredibly wonderful stories, but I’m wondering, is there a story you can share with us that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat, stranger, just plain funny from all your experiences?

Susan Gorrell: I do. And as long as, it doesn’t have to be about film, but it can be about Disney. Anything, 

Steve Cuden: anything from your career, say 

Susan Gorrell: character, theme, park, character. So yes. When I, uh. Used to do, like we were talking about Disney. I was a Disney character. I did the Chippendale. Hope there’s no kids listening. I’ve just ruined them.

And, um, we did a, a stage show and you know, when you’re on the show, people really believe that you’re that character. Mm-hmm. We’re on the stage, the voices are over the. Speakers, but when we’re on the stage, we can talk to each other, but nobody can hear us. And so goofy. The guy playing Goofy said, let me grab, grab my arm, and said, we’re gonna swing around because we had a dance scene.

And he swung around so hard that my glove slipped off. And I went flying into the audience, landed in the front row on a guy’s lap, and my head popped off. Oh, not my real head, the fake dead Disney head. Then my mascara was down my face, and I remember that guy just looked at me and I just grabbed his cheeks and him a big old kiss, put my head back on and jumped back in the game.

You don’t just stop. You keep going. That’s the key. That’s the one. The show must 

Steve Cuden: go on. 

Susan Gorrell: Show goes on. Kids were crying and people were, you know, like, oh my God. But hey, I made that guy’s day. 

Steve Cuden: And you were playing Chip? Chip or Dale? I 

Susan Gorrell: was playing Dale, I believe that day. 

Steve Cuden: Dale. 

Susan Gorrell: Yep. And I think they’re more shocked to find out that Dale was a girl.

Steve Cuden: Well, it works both ways ’cause there are boys that play mini and there are girls that play Mickey. 

Susan Gorrell: That’s it. They do. That’s right. 

Steve Cuden: Absolutely true. So they were in 

Susan Gorrell: shock, but it was, um, but anyway, yeah, that would be my best, funniest story that I always remember as a kid. 

Steve Cuden: That’s a great story. Okay, so last question for you today, Susan.

Yes. Um, you, you’ve shared with us an enormous amount of very. Effective and useful advice, but do you have a single solid piece of advice that you like to give to those who are just starting out perhaps, or maybe they’re in the, in a little bit in the business and trying to get to that next level. 

Susan Gorrell: Uh, be inform yourself, like think when we’re talking about those contracts, it’s super important.

Learn all the aspects you can so that when you go in and start your project, you’re not just knowing one thing. You know, everything doesn’t mean you’re trying to be in charge. It just knows that when people are talking to you, you’re like, okay, I understand that. I understand that. And if you don’t, you don’t have to go to school for it.

Go and read. I mean, you have so many options online now, but know those things. And I think the biggest thing is treat everybody with respect. All your crew, all your people, anybody you’re with in life, be kind. Life is short for everybody and I think if we can just show a little kindness in everything we do, maybe we’ll be able to work better together and and be together more.

And I think that’s super important. Smile a lot. 

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that that is, you know, it’s a, you have a great attitude. I really wish you’d have a little more energy though. 

Susan Gorrell: I’m really boring. 

Steve Cuden: You’re, you’re, you’re filled with just the most wonderful energy. Um, so Susan Gorrell, this has been a great treat for me and I can’t thank you enough for your time, your energy, and especially for your wisdom and all these things.

And I thank you. I thank you greatly. 

Susan Gorrell: You were great. I really appreciate it. And I hope it helped some people out there or they’re just bored of death and fell asleep. So one, the two. 

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you are listening to.

Your support helps us bring more great story beat episodes to you. StoryBeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, tune in and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden and may all your stories be unforgettable.