Steve Cuden: On today’s Story Beat. 

Scott Christian Sava: I’m not making art to become famous. I’m not making art to create a masterpiece that’s going to stun the world. I’m creating art because it makes me happy. That was the number one thing that I had to realize and then practice was because I wanted to get better, not because I needed to get better. 

Announcer: This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden A podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop. And produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment. Here now is your host, Steve Cuden 

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on Story Beat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Well, I’m truly delighted to speak with my very good friend Scott Christian Sava for the second time on Story Beat. Scott’s an artist, animator, illustrator, writer, director and producer whose work over the last 30 years has brought some of the world’s most beloved characters to life in film, television, comics and games. From Casper the Friendly Ghost to the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers to Star Trek to Spider man and much more, Scott’s unique talents and vision have been called upon by Marvel Comics, Disney, Universal Studios, Nickelodeon, and various others. In 2000, he founded Blue Dream Studios, which in addition to creating its own line of kids graphic novels, has produced work for Star wars, the X files, Aliens vs. Predator, and other franchises. The studio’s first feature film, Animal Crackers, is available on Netflix and was the summer of 2020’s number one animated movie in the world. Recently, I read Scott’s latest book, Becoming an Artist. How to Make Art Like a Human by embracing failure, discovering your creative voice, and finding joy in the process. I found the very useful concepts of becoming an artist easy and fun to read while being highly inspirational for anyone seeking to become a finely tuned artist. Scott also produces videos online dedicated to his over 4 million followers, where he talks about art, autism, and how to be both a kindlier artist and human. Scott’s mission is to make the world a kinder, gentler place, one story at a time. So for all those reasons and many more, I’m truly happy to welcome back to Story Beat today the prolific creative force better known as Scott Kristiansava. Scott, welcome to the show for the second time. 

Scott Christian Sava: I can’t believe I’m back again. This is so nice. 

Steve Cuden: I know it’s been a few years since you’ve been on the show. Of course we’ve been in touch, but, it’s Terrific to have you back. Since we last spoke on the show, which is, I hate to say it, eight years ago. 

Scott Christian Sava: Eight years ago. 

Steve Cuden: believe it or not, has anything changed in your world in terms of the way that you think about art and the way that you come at it? I know you’ve written a book that we’re going to talk about in a bit, but has anything changed for you or is it sort of you’ve gone down the same road? 

Scott Christian Sava: No, everything has changed. I think I have grown so much as an artist and as a human being in the last eight years and a lot of that has to do with. We went through Covid. I had my movie come out. 

Steve Cuden: Right. 

Scott Christian Sava: I joined TikTok and YouTube. I’ve written a book. Life changes you. I don’t, I don’t think it’s possible to go through eight years and have you. Have it not change you in so many ways. And artistically I think I got to do something that I never had a chance to do, which was to just purely be an artist and make art for me. My entire life I’ve been working for comic books or working for video games or working for films and there was always a client, there was always a script, there was always something, you. 

Steve Cuden: Needed somebody else’s approval all the time, didn’t you? 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, yeah, just. I had such a remarkable time when we, when I joined TikTok and I found my, my voice and my audience to be able to make art that made me happy was a chance for me to find out more about myself. When you’re doing something purely for you, you have no one telling you what to do. You discover yourself so much more. And so I think that was what was exciting about it. 

Steve Cuden: How do you discover yourself? Because the process is not thinking about others and their needs. It’s all about you and what you want to do. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, I think it takes a while for you to figure that out. And I’m sure everybody’s journey of self discovery is different. For me, I found joy in making art 

00:05:00 

Scott Christian Sava: that, excited that 13 year old boy that I was, you know, I was drawing dragons and centaurs and elves and, you know, things that I loved. And it was so freeing. And I think the thing that really made me so happy was I found my people. I found people who liked, who loved the same things that I loved. And ah, I think that’s what every artist needs to do because artists in all genres, whether it be writing or music or visual or dance or whatever, they always want to make their Art for people to love. No. M1 makes art that they don’t want people to like or see. We always want our work to have meaning and to be seen. But so many of us pursue what’s popular, what they think other people will like. Right. They don’t make art that they want to make. They make art that they think people will like. And a lot of that is following trends, it’s following pop culture, it’s following other artists. And that’s not fulfilling as a. As a human being. It’s not fulfilling as an artist. And I think I came to a point where maybe the first year doing the social media stuff, I was painting everybody that people would request. And I was just. It didn’t matter. I painted Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish and whoever it was that people were asking me to paint. And I was painting it because that meant more views, and more views meant more followers, etc, etc. And I think once you’ve hit 100,000 followers, 200,000, 300,000 followers, you’re going to, okay, why am I doing this now? And there was a point where I got tired of making art that had no soul to it. It was just, I’m gonna find a photograph of someone famous and copy it. 

Steve Cuden: It was commercial illustration. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, yeah. And it was. There was just the sheer boredom in saying, I just. I need to paint something for myself. And when you paint something for yourself, you can’t do it in an hour and a half. So you can have a video that you can produce, that might take a week or two. 

Steve Cuden: What was the first thing you did when you started that process? 

Scott Christian Sava: The first one that I did that, but two or three years ago, it was, Gothic Vampire. I’m horrible. I’m horrible at naming my. My heart. But it was. There was a photo of an Italian woman. She does these costumes that I follow. And I will say her name, but I’m sure I’m saying it improperly. It’s Grimilde Malatesta. And, I follow her on Instagram. And she had this red gown with a high neck, and it was a profile. And, she had her hair up in a bun. And I would go live, on YouTube. And I was just showing how I can take a single photo and design multiple compositions from that photo. Do I take this profile and do I make it a tall composition and there’s maybe a stained glass behind her? Or what if it’s horizontal and she’s on the left side and there’s a bookshelf beside her? Or what if she’s in the center and it’s a square composition and what. You know, And I really like the one with the bookshelf. She’s off to the very left side of the painting and there’s just a gothic bookshelf, with apothecary type of stuff, things in jars and whatever and just old books. And it was a two minute doodle, just a really quick, rough sketch. But I liked it and I kept coming back to it in my mind I should really turn that into a painting. And I think I just at some point came to the decision of I think it’s time to just take some time for myself. 

Steve Cuden: And prior to that you weren’t doodling or making sketches or creating finished pieces, that were for you at all? 

Scott Christian Sava: No, I was doing no pre production, no thought it was just who should I paint today? And you know, they would paint something from Game of Thrones. Okay. So I would find some photographs and I would do that. And it was mostly because I was both going live recording myself as I was painting and I was getting requests and whatever and I would record the process and then I would turn that into a short. And so I was both going live every day and editing a short video every day. There’s no time for creativity. It’s just, it was good practice. I got much better at my, my technique because I was creating art. 

Steve Cuden: Every day we’re going to talk much more about practice and just because that’s a big part of what you have, have gotten to with your book and so on is the, the act of creation. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: Which is I guess part and 

00:10:00 

Steve Cuden: parcel with the fact that you are now doing it for you, the act of creation, not for others. Even though the same artist, you’ve grown into a different, you have had a different perspective on what you’re doing in your work. 

Scott Christian Sava: Absolutely. 

Steve Cuden: So you, you were Talking about the 13 year old Scott, who was already drawing. You have, you’ve been drawing since you were a little boy, right? 

Scott Christian Sava: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: And I know in our last conversation we discussed that you started out drawing. It was all drawing. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: And I’m just wondering, did you have a sense back then that this would be something you would keep doing for your whole life? Was it that much in your bl. 

Scott Christian Sava: My career went from I want to be the artist on Spider man to I’m working in video games to I’m doing comic book covers to I’m making animation for TV and film to I’m writing graphic novels to now I’M writing and directing a film. So I think I always knew that art was going to be a part of my life, but it is happened in so many different forms, whether it would be writing or animation or video games or whatever. So for me that just felt like art was more of a wider, view of art. It was never that it had to be with me with a paintbrush or a pencil in my hand. so I, I felt like I was comfortable. Whether it be digitally or traditionally, whether it be writing or directing or animating. All of that felt like art. All of that felt like a good creative outlet to me. But it wasn’t until I was diagnosed as autistic three years ago. 

Steve Cuden: That’s incredible. 

Scott Christian Sava: That, yeah, that I realized that my entire life, art was my safe place. I would always turn to a pencil and paper to drown out the world around me. Whether you want to call it like a stimming or you want to call it an escape or whatnot. But art in that form, not animation, not writing, not directing, not video games, but holding a pencil and just drawing something was always that comfort. And I didn’t realize that until I went through therapy and I found out what are those things that make that help me get through stressful times or overstimulating times and whatnot. So art has always been something that my body and my mind needed and I just didn’t know for 53 years. 

Steve Cuden: Well, you’re extraordinarily high functioning, obviously, and it probably turns out to be your secret weapon. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, yeah, it was, I bring my sketchbook with me everywhere now. And my son graduated back in May at Penn, State. And we went out to the graduation and there was thousands of people, you know, and normally I would be having a panic attack. I’ve always, my entire life, never done well in crowded situations, never done well with a lot of noise and whatnot. And I went armed with noise canceling headphones and my sketchbook and we found a spot way in the back at the top and I opened up my sketchbook. I had a pochette box and my watercolors and my noise canceling headphones on. And Donna was sitting next to me and we would, you know, cheer when our son was recognized or whatever. But for the rest, you know, there were two hours when my son was not on a stage. You know, I was able to get through all of the overstimulation and everything by just focusing on my art. And and so yeah, it’s, it’s now a daily part of my life. 

Steve Cuden: So how important then has the practice of art, from the days when you were a kid up till now, where you do it every single day, how important has the practice, part of it meant to your success as an artist? Has it been critical? 

Scott Christian Sava: Oh, yeah. first of all, I realize. I don’t know when you realize this, but I think every, most every artist will come to the realization that, their work is never going to be in the Louvre or the Met. 

Steve Cuden: Certainly Van Gogh didn’t know it either. 

Scott Christian Sava: That’s true. That’s true. But I think I’ve come to the realization that I’m not making art to become famous. I’m 

00:15:00 

Scott Christian Sava: not making art to create a masterpiece that’s going to stun the world. I’m creating art because it makes me happy. That was the number one thing that I had to realize. And then practice was because I wanted to get better, not because I needed to get better. 

Steve Cuden: So when you practice, which, which means you’re drawing and painting every day, do you think of it mostly as practice or do you think of it as art creation? 

Scott Christian Sava: I think of it as both. I know that I need to keep pushing myself and so I give myself art that’s on a time limit for practice. So, I’ve been doing a series where I’m doing a hundred mini album covers and I give myself 25 minutes because I’m giving these pieces of art away. It’s for a pin trade at my art store. And I know I have to create art in 25 minutes. How do I channel every bit of information on this meatloaf Bat out of hell cover down into, something that I can digest and create in 25 minutes? or if I’m making say a one hour piece and I’m doing a portrait of somebody, how do I hone the skills of my ink lines? How do I really, get my watercolors to feel more graphical and how do I make them feel more special? What are the things? I’m going to try this different outliner today. So I use those practice pieces to try new materials or new techniques and whatnot. So it’s a twofold. One is practice, but two, it’s also experimental. 

Steve Cuden: So I’m going to say something to you you probably are going to push back on, which is fine. I think because for those of you that don’t know Scott’s work, they can see it at Blue Dream Studios, right? They can see a lot of your work there. 

Scott Christian Sava: They can see it@ssavaart.com oh, Blue Dream Studios. Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: Okay. @ssavaart.com I highly urge the listeners to go there, ssavaart.com and look at what Scott does. I’m telling you without any question in my mind that some of the most wonderful work you do is what you call practice. 

Scott Christian Sava: Really? 

Steve Cuden: Yes. I love the sketchiness of it. I love the unfinished quality of it. I love the way that it just has pure energy and isn’t. There’s. It isn’t as refined. Although your refined work is superb. I’m just saying that I think someday when you have a show somewhere, you should absolutely have part of it be. Here’s where this came from. Here’s the work. The work product, not the finished product. 

Scott Christian Sava: I think that’s something that every artist struggles with, is learning to let your art be not perfect. Let your art. 

Steve Cuden: Well, which piece of art is. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yes, but so many artists will noodle their work to death to get every line right, to get every stroke of paint right, to get everything perfect. And it’s in those loose practice pieces that some real magic happens that lots of times gets covered up if given more time. And so you’re right. When you do those quicker pieces, when you’re just doing something for practice or for fun, they’re allowed to be more experimental. They’re allowed to. You’re allowed to leave those splotches or those, you know, to go out of the lines or whatever it might be, or your proportions aren’t right, or your, you know, your anatomy isn’t just. So in doing so, that shows your uniqueness, that shows you as an artist. 

Steve Cuden: It’s pure energy on paper is what it winds up being. Because you’re not thinking about, how do I finish this? You’re just thinking about, what is this thing? And it’s got great energy to it. It’s like. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the sketches of Frank Gehry, the architect before. They turn into buildings. They’re just massive squiggles and lines and just, They’re fascinating because they don’t look like. They don’t look like finished buildings at all. They’re just squiggles on a page. But they’re absolutely fantastic. And you’re way beyond the squiggles part. But I’m saying that the energy, And your work product that you show off on, YouTube, I think is fantastic. I love seeing. When you’re halfway through. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: Not all the way through, even though I love seeing that too. I love to see that. That. That inner step. So when you go to start a new work every day. You have to clearly make a decision. At some point. I’m going to paint and draw this particular subject versus that particular subject. Where do you, Once you’ve made that decision? Okay, I’m going to do Meatloaf Bat out of Hell today. Where do you first start? How do you start your work? Where’s the beginning of it? 

Scott Christian Sava: I think it depends on the subject. If I’m drawing, 

00:20:00 

Scott Christian Sava: say, Bat out of Hell, the first is the, the guy on the motorcycle bursting out of hell, you know, so I always, I, I will always start if there’s a character with that simple oval shape for the head. And, and, and that, that gives me everything I need to know when, when drawing people as I draw the head. Because once you have the head, you know, how many heads tall a person is, you. Everything is, comes from there. And so I think that’s always been my, my cornerstone for every time I draw a human. If I’m drawing a place, it’s almost always in a. Just finding the perspective, finding that box shape. You know, what, what are the large shapes I can work with? But I think every piece. What I, what I love, because I’ve been doing two. Two different things is I do both. I’m painting portraits, I’m doing, you know, album covers, or I’m doing this. And then I’ve also been doing. I’m gonna go out and I’m gonna go paint something in the wild. I’m gonna go paint a cup of tea. I’m gonna go paint some stairs. I’m gonna go paint, at the zoo. And so I fill my travel, my sketchbook, my travel journal with things that aren’t people. It’s places and things. And so I, I like that because it keeps my brain constantly guessing. My brain constantly has to break down new shapes. And how am I going to take this and digest this and break it down into shapes? And I think that’s what I’m, as an artist, I’m always looking for. Because again, drawing portraits every day and it becomes numbing. And, and you can only get so good as an artist doing the same thing over and over again. And then your, your brain needs new material. 

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that’s why the great artists have periods where they’re. For two or three or five years or whatever it is, they’re painting similar subjects or styles or techniques over and over again, and then it suddenly, it stops because they’ve had enough. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, there’s only so much that you can do. Right. 

Steve Cuden: And then you move on to the next thing, whatever that thing winds up being. let’s talk about your book for a few minutes. becoming an Artist. How to make art like a human by embracing failure, discovering your creative voice, and finding joy in the process. Why did you write this book? What was your need or purpose? Or why did you do it? Tell the. Tell the listeners what it’s about first. 

Scott Christian Sava: And then why did you do is not a how to book. It’s easier to say what it is. It is not a how to book. It is. What becoming an artist became was a collection of answers to questions I was getting asked the most about from young artists. is, there such thing as cheating in art? how do you get better? What do you do if you have artist block? What’s the best materials to use? What’s the best techniques to use? So it became that, almost. But I really think becoming an artist, in its simplest form, I would say, is the Zen of being an artist. What we think, what we need to think, what we need to hope for and prepare for the doubts, the imposter syndrome, all of those things that we go through. I tried to talk about that. So it’s very much not a technique, not a how to, and more about all of the things that goes into, the life and the thoughts of being an artist. 

Steve Cuden: It’s a book of inspiration is what it is. 

Scott Christian Sava: I’m hoping. I’m hoping it is. 

Steve Cuden: Well, I think it is. It’s definitely not. Hey, here’s. You use this brush with that, kind of paint? No, it’s none of that. There’s a tiny bit of that in there, but. But it’s mainly about this is how you think as an artist. This is how you think in life as an artist. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: This is how you, you come to be an artist. That’s what it is. So who is it intended for? Is it for beginners only, or is it for everyone? 

Scott Christian Sava: No, I think it’s intended for anybody in any art field, whether it be writing or dance or music or acting. I think it’s intended for anybody who falls under the umbrella term of artist to encourage them to make that art. It’s there to encourage people to make art despite the fact that their art sucks, despite the fact that they’ve never made art. They could be 80 years old and they’ve never. It doesn’t matter if you’re 12 years old, it doesn’t matter. There was, a line that Hay House, my publisher, was using that I didn’t like, but it kind of makes sense is this book gives you license to go and 

00:25:00 

Scott Christian Sava: make art. and I didn’t want to feel like there was any authority to give anybody a license. But that’s essentially what I’m trying to do, is just give you permission, give you that encouragement to make art. You don’t need people’s permission to do that. 

Steve Cuden: Pretty much everybody I’ve ever known in the arts, in that big umbrella of the arts, because I’ve done lots of different things as you know, as have you. most everybody has what you alluded to earlier, which is imposter syndrome. Most people think, why would anybody look at my stuff? I really like doing it, or I wish I could do more of it or have more money from it, or whatever they’re thinking. But most people, especially because every time out, you’re starting with a blank canvas, you’re starting with a blank page or a blank screen. So you, you’re always coming up with something to start fresh. And that means there’s the fear that it won’t work, whatever that means. But what your book does is it gives people the courage to say, yeah, that’s right, you’re going to have fear, you’re going to not be sure of yourself. And that’s fine. Stumble and find your way and make mistakes. That’s what the book is about. 

Scott Christian Sava: Make bad art. 

Steve Cuden: Make bad art. You say it. 

Scott Christian Sava: Bad art. Yeah. And I said, there’s a chapter of, make 100 bad pieces of art to get that one good one. 

Steve Cuden: And I’m telling you that in those hundred pieces of bad art, there are at least 40 of them that are pretty good. You think it’s bad? 

Scott Christian Sava: Yes, yes, exactly. I mean, they’re not as bad as we think, but we’re always keeping our eyes on our idols, the artists that we admire. And we go, well, I’m not as good as that, so I suck. I’m not as good as them. And we’ll never be as good as them, and they’ll never be as good as their idols. We’re always, and that’s the thing artists do is if you take the artist you are now and you go back 10 years, that artist 10 years ago would be thrilled to be as good as the artist you are now. You’re a different person. We’re a different person, but we keep moving. The bar, it’s like a mirage that we can never reach, where it’s always just out of reach. And that’s a good thing. the More we improve, the more we set our standards further ahead of us. The problem is we never give ourselves the joy of acknowledging how good we’ve gotten, how much we’ve improved. And we also don’t give ourselves the joy of being content with where we are on our journey. 

Steve Cuden: I think that’s because we, the artist, know where all the seams are and where all the mistakes were to get you to where it is. So when you look at it, you can stand back with some pride, but you also know where all the flaws. 

Scott Christian Sava: Are, the scars, all the scars, you. 

Steve Cuden: Know where they all are. So the person that views it for the first time and sees the completed piece, they’re taking it in from their perspective and they’re enjoying something that’s finished. They don’t know what it took to make it. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, they don’t see all the flaws, all of the worry, all of the tears, all of the mistakes. And they’re also seeing it as it’s intended to as a whole. We’re still seeing it with our nose to it, up close, every little detail. 

Steve Cuden: And you might be thinking to yourself, if only I could just change that one line, or if I could only change that color, or whatever you might be thinking at that time, you know, I didn’t do that quite right. Well, that’s the way it is. So there is no such thing as a perfect art, or a perfect piece of art, I should say. They all have flaws in them and I think that that’s what makes it art, don’t you? 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. The flaws is what makes it not only art, but what makes it human art. 

Steve Cuden: Human art? Yeah. Well, I don’t have a collection of. 

Scott Christian Sava: Elephant art, so I’m mostly talking about AI. But, 

Steve Cuden: Yeah, well, that’s coming, isn’t it? Yeah, AI is definitely coming. I hope it doesn’t work out so well. I want to see human art. So what do you think the purpose of art is and its creation? Why do we make art? 

Scott Christian Sava: We make art. Every artist makes art for a different reason. but I think for the most part, we make art to capture something, whether it’s a feeling or a moment or impression, a hope, a dream. Others, I think, make art to tell a story, whether it be political or spiritual or emotional. They want to tell a story that’s important to them. Other people will make art for money, what little there is. but for the most part, I think artists make art because we have to, because it’s something inside of us. It’s not like I Make dinner or breakfast? Because I have to. Otherwise I will starve. I don’t make dinner. 

00:30:00 

Scott Christian Sava: I don’t make scrambled eggs and toast because it’s something inside of me that has to come out, you know? 

Steve Cuden: Unless you’re a chef. 

Scott Christian Sava: Unless you’re a chef, exactly. Art, whether it be writing or music or cooking, is something we do because the act of making art is what makes us happy. Not the finished piece. It’s the act, the process of making art makes us. Like I was saying, with my autism, it’s that it makes me comfortable, it makes me whole, it gives me joy to make art. It doesn’t matter what kind of art I’m making. Of course, every artist wants everything they do to be wonderful, sure. But to just be in the moment when you’re making art and to just. It’s like you’re. You’re. You’re on a beautiful beach, watching the sunset and worrying about. I hope when the sun goes down, it’s a, you know, like it’s good. Rather than appreciating the clouds and the wind and the surf and the seagulls and all of the stuff that’s going on, you’re not appreciating the moment. You’re not in that moment. And that’s what making art needs to be, is I’m enjoying drawing this person. I’m enjoying painting. I’m enjoying being in this moment of creation. 

Steve Cuden: Do you think that the audience for that art that, is the viewers of the art? The people that might be in a museum or in a book or wherever it might be? Do you think that they need to understand that in order to appreciate the art? 

Scott Christian Sava: No, I think art can move you, whether it be a song or a book or a piece of art. Painting, I think that can move you without any explanation. That said, I found that my art needs a story. I think. I think my. I’m sorry. Not that my art, like the Gothic vampire, needs a backstory or anything like that, but I think what made the Gothic Vampires like my most popular painting, I think what made it so popular was the story of the creation of it. What I went through, all of those scars that we talked about in the art were available to everybody to see what went into making that. The highs, the lows, the inspiration and everything that went into it became a part of that. It’s almost like performance art. You know, you see those people who will be blindfolded painting upside down and throwing, you know, splashes of paint, and they turn it upside down and it’s Jesus or something, you know. 

Steve Cuden: Oh, those are fascinating. But. Yes, yes. 

Scott Christian Sava: But had you just seen that painting, you’d be like, oh, it’s a decent painting of Jesus, I guess. But, when you find out that the guy did it blindfolded and with two hands and it was upside down, and then it becomes. That’s part of why that piece is special, is there? 

Steve Cuden: So in that case, the process of the art is part of the completed art. 

Scott Christian Sava: For me, I found that before I started doing this, I was making art, and I was making, in my opinion, really nice art. some of my best pieces. I would post them on Instagram and I would get maybe 35 likes, and that was it. It wasn’t until I started showing the process and talking about the process, showing my humanity, showing my fears and my doubts and my mistakes and how I overcame them or didn’t overcome them. And it wasn’t until I became more vulnerable and showed all of that that my art found its people. And so I think there’s 100% a lot of art that needs no explanation. It needs no backstory. It’s just people see it and they go, wow, I feel something. Or I love this, and I want to post my art. And maybe it’s to say that my gift is more in the storytelling than it is in the finished piece. It’s in this, for me and my art, I found that the journey is more important than the destination. 

Steve Cuden: You’re talking about your journey or the journey that’s within the piece of art itself? 

Scott Christian Sava: Both. Both, yeah. Because I feel like I am on that journey with the art. So while the art has this, I’m feeling those things too. So I feel like, we’re both suffering together. 

Steve Cuden: How important is for artists, for you, for other artists to continue to try new things, to press on 

00:35:00 

Steve Cuden: new ways to do things or subjects or whatever. 

Scott Christian Sava: I don’t think it’s important until you’re ready. And you’ll know you’re ready when you have artist block. People think artist block is just this magical thing. Like, oh, no, the muse left me, and, now I just need to sit here and wait for her to come back. No, artist block is, in my opinion, because you’re bored. You’re bored of the same technique, you’re bored of the same subject, or you’re bored of the same medium. It’s one of those three things, and that’s when it’s time, when you reach that point where you’re going, either. I don’t know what I want to draw or I’m tired of the same drawing. I’m tired of the same mediums. That’s when it’s time to change stuff up. That’s your brain has reached that point to where it’s like, I’ve done this enough times. I’m not finding this challenging anymore. It’s like watching the same TV show over and over and over again. At some point, your brain’s going to go, okay, I know what’s going to happen. Can we try something new? 

Steve Cuden: That’s also when a new set of fears could come in. Because m. You’re going to do something. 

Scott Christian Sava: Different and new, you start all over. Now I’m going to. Right now I’m at my pinnacle at colored pencils. I will never get better at colored pencils and drawing portraits. Now I’m going to try oil painting and doing landscapes. And I’m going from knowing every thing that’s going to happen, which is why your brain is bored. I know every color I need to use. I know everything to. I have no idea what I’m doing. I don’t know how this medium works. And I wouldn’t say to go from. I wouldn’t change all three things. I wouldn’t change your style, your technique, and your medium and your subject, at the same time. But I would say when you do, you’re going to. It’s like you’re the new kid in. 

Steve Cuden: Class, so you need the challenge. 

Scott Christian Sava: You need the challenge. And that’s when you have to give yourself that ability to say, yeah, I’m going to suck at this. I’m going to be miserably bad at this. 

Steve Cuden: So how important is it that artists not fear failure? 

Scott Christian Sava: It’s very important. It’s not always, attainable. It takes a lot of self will, you know, you have to steel yourself with everything to say, it’s not going to be perfect. And that comes with time. It comes with experience. But embracing your lack of talent. I mean, if I was going to go and, windsail, was it windsurfing or wind sailing? 

Steve Cuden: I think there’s both, but it’s windsurfing. 

Scott Christian Sava: Okay. Windsurfing. I’ve never windsurfed before. Okay. To expect that I’m gonna go out there, stand up, catch a wave and ride it in, and, you know, do 360s and all that other stuff would be ludicrous. To think that never doing this before, I’m going to suddenly be an expert. Yet everybody who either tries to draw something new for the first time or try a New medium for the first time gets so mad because they can’t. Well, this doesn’t look like a Van Gogh. This doesn’t look like a, Ah, you know, Norman Rockwell, this. Of course not. They did that for decades. You know, I mean, this is literally your first time trying this. And I think there just needs to be that, appreciation for being bad, that you’re. You’re giving yourself the permission to be bad. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s partly in the book. You also talk about accidents and that accidents are a worthy thing to have happen. Why? 

Scott Christian Sava: Because accidents produce new styles, new techniques. it’s the stuff that makes your art human. It’s the stuff that makes your art uniquely yours. It could be in the way that you can never seem to get that other eye right. You know, your eyes just are always off, or you draw noses weird, or you can’t get your colors to blend right. Or you’re always going over the lines. Once you embrace that and you go, you know what? I don’t hate this. This is uniquely me. You know, maybe that’s the signature of my art, is when people see, like. And I stole this from a friend of mine, was making the noses red, you know, in my, in my art. And people, People will say, oh, whenever I see the red nose, I think of you and your art. Or if I see that outline, you know, I see your art. And I think those are things that I said, I like this. I’m going to do this more often. And I think just the mistakes are 

00:40:00 

Scott Christian Sava: something we just need to embrace. We need to embrace them for two reasons. The first being we’re going to make mistakes until we improve. That’s just human nature. But there comes a point where we start to appreciate art not being perfect. It’s why we have stuff like Picasso. It’s why we have stuff like Monet and Van Gogh. That is not photorealism. Photorealism is not the pinnacle of art, but so many young artists think that if it looks like a photo, that is, that’s the best you could do. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s one little corner of art. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yes. But, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s. It seems like a magic trick that young artists, you know, it’s like, oh, my God, it looks like a photo. It’s magic. But they would look at a Picasso go, I could do that. You know, and it’s like, sure, exactly. But I mean, it’s, it’s look that the eyes are on the same thing. And it’s. No, that took years of practice. And Years of decision making and saying, I like this. I want my art to be, you know, to be like this. And that’s. I think that’s where we find our unique style and we find our voice. 

Steve Cuden: So you write that you have a corner of shame. 

Scott Christian Sava: I do. 

Steve Cuden: What is the corner of shame? 

Scott Christian Sava: The corner of shame is the pieces that they just. They weren’t good enough for me to finish, but they were too good to throw away. So. And a lot of it is. It could be. I really like the background on this, but the character I just couldn’t get right. 

Steve Cuden: Do you go back and look at it in time? 

Scott Christian Sava: Well, I mean, I can. I walk by the corner of shame and I see them staring at me. You know, it’s like the island of Misfit toys in the corner of the hobbit hole. But it’s. I’ve never had his. This is the thing is, I’ve never had the desire to finish them once the muse has left me on that. I just, I don’t have that desire. I’ve moved on. and I’ve just. I don’t know what to do with them. 

Steve Cuden: So you’re saying that you’re ashamed of them? Is that why there’s a corner of shame? 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, I’m ashamed. No, that you never finished. It’s more. I think I got the corner of shame from the term, the cone of shame for when you have to put a cone on your dog. You know, I just thought it was. Was funny. No, it’s more of I’m disappointed. I’m not mad. I’m just disappointed in you. And that’s essentially where I am, is I’m disappointed. But I understand that sometimes you get to a certain point with a piece of art and you realize it’s just not going anywhere. But I like some bits of it. 

Steve Cuden: well, right. You worked on it for a while and then for whatever reason, it stopped appealing to you. It stopped speaking to you. You do wr the book about when you were in school. You did not have the so called mysterious it. Whatever it is. And it’s the same thing that happens in Hollywood. People talk about the it factor in an actor. There’s something about that actor that they leap off the screen at people and it’s unavoidable when they’re seeing them on the screen, you can’t help but watch them. They have it. Do you think you have it now? 

Scott Christian Sava: No, no, I don’t think I’ll ever have it. I know too many artists, I know too many youtubers. I knew too many directors, writers in every field that I’ve ever worked in. There are people who fall upwards. I know you know them too. Yeah. No matter, how. No matter how many times they’ve missed their deadlines, they went over budget and they did. And no matter what, people are like, oh, it’s okay. He’s a genius. You know, let them. And I go, okay, I have to do everything perfectly on time, on budget. I have to underbid, other people. I have to say, I’ll do it in half the time. I’ll do this and I’ll do that. And still for five times the budget and being late and those other people with it will still get the work. And I will never be able to understand it. I never will. So I know that I am, a journeyman artist, and I’m okay with that. 

Steve Cuden: And some of those people that have it, as you call it, you’re not seeing what they went through to get to that final thing either. Sometimes they had to work long and hard to get to who they are, who they are, what their voice is in order to just walk in and sell, I think. 

Scott Christian Sava: So if you want to humanize them, I guess. But I still prefer them being the villains in my story. They’re the monsters in the story. 

Steve Cuden: They just walk in and sell everything. I think that, very few people have it, whatever that mysterious thing is. But when 

00:45:00 

Steve Cuden: people have it, it really does leap out at you. At least for most people it does. What happens if an artist or someone who’s creative is uncertain that they’re on the right path? How should they think about what they’re doing to maybe keep at that right path? 

Scott Christian Sava: Well, there’s a chapter, in the story where I talk about Stan Lee and how he had come up with the idea for Spider man, did everybody at Marvel told him he was stupid, told him the idea was stupid and he should just let it go. And. And he stuck to his guns. He believed in this and he fought for it. And had he not, we wouldn’t have Spider Man. And then I talk about how it’s a great story, but that’s not how the world works. Because your idea really could be stupid and people are just trying to tell you, this is a really bad idea, don’t pursue this. Or it could be just like Stan Lee and they’re all idiots and they don’t see a good thing, and you’re the only one who sees it. We don’t know. And that’s the thing that’s so Hard is we don’t know what things we should pursue and what things we shouldn’t. We really don’t because we don’t have a crystal ball. We can’t tell what the future holds. 

Steve Cuden: So your book clearly is all about artistic process, which is what this show’s all about. This show is all about creative and artistic process. And that’s where you focus yourself in the book. Does being an artist, or I should qualify that by saying does being a successful artist? And success comes in many different ways. It’s not necessarily monetary success. It can be a creative success. Does being an artist and being successful at it require having a specific repeatable process? 

Scott Christian Sava: Yes. to be successful at least, from a career point of view, you do need to be able to work on a proper timeline. You need to be able to create the same type of art that people are hiring you for. So, yeah, you really do need to have honed your skills to the point to where you can repeat the type of art that you need to repeat. because people are going to hire you based on your portfolio, not based on what they think you could do. 

Steve Cuden: Assuming you’re going into the commercial world. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yes. 

Steve Cuden: Because obviously, you could become a successful artist not looking for any kind of commercial work at all. You’re just painting in your garage, and you’re painting and painting and painting, and it’s not, work for hire. 

Scott Christian Sava: Exactly. If you’re doing that for yourself, then it doesn’t matter. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s true. But if you’re painting for yourself, do you still need a specific repeatable process? 

Scott Christian Sava: No, no, only if you want to get better at said thing. So in other words, if you, if you’re making art, finger painting, and it makes you happy, you do it till it stops making you happy. And then if you get to that point to where you’re saying, I want to be a better finger painter, then you start doing that. But it’s really. There’s the two stages of art. There’s the I’m making art because it makes me happy, and then there’s the either A, I want to make art as a career, or I want to make better art. But no, one is forcing you to leave that I’m making art to make me happy stage. You could stay there for as long as you want to. Say you have a regular job or whatever it might be, and you just come home to make art to make you happy. You’ll know when you want to be better at something. You’ll know when you want to make that leap. But until that point, I just. I don’t want to put that pressure on people who feel like I’ve always got to keep improving and keep improving and keep improving, and they’re only just making art in their garage, like you say, at nights or on weekends, for themselves. Why do you need to keep improving? For who? and so make sure that you’re doing it because you want to be better, not because you think that that’s a part of the process of making art. You don’t need to get better at art to enjoy it. 

Steve Cuden: So if you were just starting out today, it’s a very different world than when you first started. How would you approach making sales? What would you do? Does it require special kinds of, online sites? What would you do to make a sale? How is that clearly different from when you started? 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, I think, the first thing you need to do is find your people. You got to find your audience, your customers. The way to do that is to put your work out there. Social media is the. The only way I know of doing that. I mean, you. The old way was you would 

00:50:00 

Scott Christian Sava: find a publisher or you would find an art dealer, who would. Who would take you. But those are gatekeepers. There are no gatekeepers with social media. There’s an algorithm, but other than that, there’s no gatekeepers to stop you. You post your art, you find your people. You find people. If your work is weird and disturbing, you find weird and disturbing people who like weird and disturbing art. You find your people. If your artwork is cartoony and happy, you find those cartoony and happy people who like cartoony and happy art, and you build that audience. You don’t need 4 million followers. You really need. I think there was. There’s like, a common saying that you really only need, like, a thousand true fans to support you. And, there’s a number, I think I remember hearing people say. But you. You know, you have people who will buy prints of everything you make, or they’ll buy one piece of your art every year or something like that. People who really, truly love you and support you. Find those people. And the only way you can do that is by putting yourself out there. What is very. Which is very stressful. Yeah, it’s because you’re exposing your work to the world. You’re exposing yourself. Yeah, you’re exposing yourself. And that’s. That’s, the thing that’s scary. 

Steve Cuden: That’s what. That’s what scares most. Whatever kind of art you’re making, writers, directors, producers, whatever you Suddenly have to let go of the baby that you’ve been working on for whatever period of time and let other people look at it where it then becomes their perspective, not yours anymore. And that’s scary. 

Scott Christian Sava: It makes you feel very vulnerable. 

Steve Cuden: Vulnerable, sure. 

Scott Christian Sava: And that’s the thing that is really tough for a lot of artists because art is personal. It’s a piece of us, you know, it’s our hopes and our dreams and our thoughts and a little bit of our soul and blood, sweat and tears. And to put it out there, it’s scary. 

Steve Cuden: I think that a lot of people who are successful. Not everyone, but I think a lot of people who are successful. I’m going to use a word, but I’m using it loosely, that they become mercenary in the sense that they’re no longer interested in impressing people. They’re doing what they do and they do it because this is what they do. And if the money comes in, it comes in. If it doesn’t, they keep doing what they do. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: And so in that sense, they become a mercenary of their work. And it’s. And it’s not the end of the world if they don’t sell something or people don’t like it. It stops being the end of the world. It’s just what they do. 

Scott Christian Sava: I think, I think there are people. That’s. A mercenary is a very nice way of saying it. I think other people might say they whore themselves out. But, it’s really a thing of. There are people who have the ability to just make art, whether, you know, in whatever medium that they know is currently popular in this moment. And they just do that. And that is all they ever want to do because their goal isn’t to create something. And I’m sorry, I don’t want to make it seem like those people are bad artists or anything like that. 

Steve Cuden: Or soldiers. No, they could be very, very good artists. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, it’s just, it’s so easy, especially in a capitalist society, to become an artist who is chasing fame or chasing those likes or chasing money and. 

Steve Cuden: Well, sometimes they have to just put food on the table. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, yeah. And it’s, and it’s, it’s. You don’t know what other people are going through and I think. But there’s, there’s the artists who are poor and they’re, and they, they will not give up an ounce of their self dignity or artistic dignity to chase likes or money or whatever. They’re no more artists than the people who do. 

Steve Cuden: Well, you spent many, many years in Hollywood working for Others. And, it wasn’t your art that was being put out. You were working for a company or for someone else, and, you were doing the best work that you knew how to do, and they kept bringing you back, or other people were oppressed and hired you. So that helped to pay your bills. But it wasn’t from your heart and soul. 

Scott Christian Sava: Exactly. That’s the part I want to differentiate, is that pursuit. And again, I don’t want to make it sound like I’m saying this, but that pursuit is soulless in that endeavor. Not that the art is soulless, but it is soulless in that endeavor because it’s commercial. It’s commercial. It’s mercenary. And that’s. That’s why I just. But, you know, there. And there’s nothing wrong with it. 

Steve Cuden: I mean, nothing is wrong with that. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. Being a commercial artist and doing that for a living and you’re happy and whatever. It’s just. There are. There’s no right way to do it there. But there are different ways and approaches. 

Steve Cuden: I wrote many, many 

00:55:00 

Steve Cuden: scripts in Hollywood for lots of different studios, and I was proud of much of it, but I never thought of it as my art. I always thought of it as I was being paid to do someone else’s need for their industrial work. And there was nothing wrong with that. It’s a way to make a living. but it isn’t. You’re giving it your best effort, but it’s not necessarily from your heart and soul. 

Scott Christian Sava: But you wrote for you as well, right? 

Steve Cuden: Well, you have to. I don’t know how you do it any other way. You have to write, things that I think when you’re writing, if you’re not pleasing yourself, no one else is going to be pleased. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah. Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: So you have to write to please yourself. I think it’s the same for you when you’re drawing. Even when you’re drawing bad pieces, you’re trying to please yourself, not impress some friend or relative or your wife. 

Scott Christian Sava: I think that’s that healthy balance that, you know, all artists need to find is, there’s a mercenary part of I’ve got to feed my family, and then there’s the I’ve got to feed my creative soul. 

Steve Cuden: Well, like many writers and like many artists, there are lots of people out there that create and create and create, and they’re not selling any of it. So they have to work at other jobs, too. And if you do, but you’re still. Your heart and soul is in the art, then you keep making the art Even if you’re not selling it until something happens. And going back several steps to van Gogh, he allegedly sold one piece of art in his whole life. Yeah, this is van Gogh. So, you know, there’s no. There’s no guarantee in the world of the arts that you’re going to make a living at it, no matter how fine your schooling is. 

Scott Christian Sava: Exactly right. There’s no, Well, I followed my dreams and I stuck to my guns. That’s not. That’s not. 

Steve Cuden: That’s not a guarantee. No, not at all. Well, I’ve been having just a terrific, fascinating, fun conversation for just a little over an hour now with my very good friend Scott Christian Sava. We’re going to wind the show down just a little bit, and I’m wondering, in all of these multiple experiences you’ve had over time, are you able to share with us a story that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or just plain funny? 

Scott Christian Sava: I’m hoping this encompasses all of that. But as I mentioned earlier, I was diagnosed as autistic three years ago. And the way that I got diagnosed was there was a family member who was 18 and, was having some troubles. And so they were taken to a psychiatrist and run through all of these tests and came back as diagnosed as autistic. And they were miserable. Miserable because to young people, autism is used almost as a slur, you know? And it was tough for them to digest me, trying to be supportive, said, well, look at me. I do this, you do this, I do this, you do this. and I’m fine. And their response was, oh, yeah, well, then you go get tested. So I got Tested on a dare from an 18 year old M. And now I got diagnosed as autistic. And since then, that is almost as much as my art become a, part of my identity. Not because I try not to talk about it too much, but there are millions of young people out there who are looking for an adult who can show them that it’s possible to exist and thrive in this world with autism. And so they see me with my noise canceling headphones on, or they hear about how I managed a panic attack or how I dealt with overstimulation or. Or any of these other things that I’m learning. I’m only three years into learning about this, and a lot of these young autistic people have known about it for 10 years or so. They know so much more about autism than I do, but it comforts them to hear me talk about it or to see me out in the Wild. Going to the zoo or going to Disney World or wherever I might be going and navigating that as an adult. And so, yes, I got diagnosed as autistic because of a dare from an 18 year old. 

Steve Cuden: Well, and clearly, as an exemplar, you are thriving and working, and you have a beautiful house and a beautiful wife and children and all the rest of it, and you’re not being held back by it. 

Scott Christian Sava: Yeah, I mean, it’s funny because some people will say, oh, my disability is my superpower. It’s not. It’s a disability. You 

01:00:00 

Scott Christian Sava: know, it’s. It’s. I’m not being. I’m not suffering from the side effects of not knowing that I had the disability and my body reacting in. In the case of a panic attack and whatnot. As much now that I know. So knowing has made my life so much better. Understanding it has made it so much better. And. And yeah, and I. Lord knows how I made it the first 53 years. Not knowing, you know, they didn’t diagnose in, you know, the late 60s, early 70s, you know, you just lived. You just lived, you know, and, But, yeah, I’m definitely doing much better and hopefully, in turn, helping to make it easier for younger people to live much better with it. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s encouraging too. So it’s good. Good to say it and hear it. all right, so last question for you today, Scott. Throughout this episode, you’ve given us a gigantic amount of advice and helpful information. But I’m wondering, do you have a single piece of advice or a tip that you like to give to those who are just starting out in the business or maybe in a little bit trying to get to another level. 

Scott Christian Sava: I think the thing that people ask me the most, of course, is how do I get. How do I make my art better? You know, like, there’s a. Like there’s a, magic word, wand or something. But the thing that helps the most is to draw everything every day. And people here draw every day, like practice. But there’s the first part, which is to draw everything. It’s draw a bottle of ketchup, draw a car, draw the side of a building. Draw a dog. Draw a cat. 

Steve Cuden: Draw. 

Scott Christian Sava: Draw people, draw places, draw things. Our job as artists is to observe, is to see the world as no one else sees it. It’s to capture its beauty or its horrors or its humor any way that we can, in whatever medium that we work. And to do that, we have to be good at drawing everything. We have to be m. You know, and I would say again, the same thing with work for writing, it would work for music. Learn to capture every emotion, learn to capture every moment in its way. Experience everything. And so that’s, that’s the thing I try to tell people to draw everything, get out there and draw stuff. Because our instincts as a child is to draw from imagination. And then at some point we come up with our OC which is our original character, and then we just keep drawing that same character, that front facing character. Or it might be you draw a car, you draw a spaceship, or you, but you’re still drawing out of your head that same thing. And it’s not until we start observing the world around us and capturing that world around us that we truly start to improve in our art and as artists. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that is, truthful advice and wonderful, excellent advice for any kind of artist in any medium. I hope so, that you just, you have to be truthful to yourself. And it does take a while in life to find your voice. At least it does for most people. there may be exceptions to that, obviously, but most, people I know, it took me decades before I felt like I had my voice. So I think that’s terrific advice. Scott Christian Sava, what fun to, have you on the show and I can’t thank you enough for your, your time, your energy and your wisdom. This has all been just phenomenal stuff. Thank you so much. 

Scott Christian Sava: Thanks for having me back, Steve. I had such a wonderful time. 

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s Story Beat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you’re listening to. Your support helps us bring more great Story Beat episodes to you. StoryBeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, TuneIn, and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden and may all your stories be unforgettable.