Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

Alexandra Hainsworth: Well, I’ve learned to absorb every kind of constructive criticism. I used to be quite resistant to it, but, I’ve learned to absorb constructive criticism and it’s a very important skill in life, I find. You know, don’t just throw people’s advice away! It could be very good for you.

Announcer: This is story Beat with Steve Cuden. A podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment.

Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, Alexandra Hainsworth, is a British Australian pop artist distributing directly with The Orchard, which is a subsidiary of Sony Music. Her last single, Fighter, hit 1.46 million Spotify streams.

Collectively, Alexandra has over 330,000 social media followers. Alexandra is an animal advocate for Four Paws Australia, and she has postgraduate qualifications in psychology. She’s also now a novelist. Alexandra’s evocative debut book, Kingdom of Flight, details a dystopian vision of Earth’s last remaining island.

Victor Paul is the co-author of Kingdom of Flight, which is published by Austin McCaulay Publishers in London. So for all those reasons and many more, I’m delighted to welcome the multi-talented Alexandra Hainsworth to StoryBeat today. Alexandra, thanks so much for joining me.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, thanks so much for having me.

Steve Cuden: It is really my great pleasure. So let’s go back in time to your roots. You’ve been singing and performing for some time now. How old were you when you first noticed music and that you had an interest in it?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I was about, uh, five years old and I was in front of a immense audience singing a whole new world, uh, the Aladdin song and um, and I got a standing ovation for a charity event.

And I think that really was a special moment where I realized I must’ve been doing something right.

Steve Cuden: Especially at that age. You were a, a very small, young girl. Yeah. How, how did you, uh, understand it at that point? Was it because the accolades were so loud?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I think the audience was. You know, as audience, audience can be tough, but, uh, I think, uh, I think it’s the passion.

It’s the passion that burns in inside, you know, and you really just want to express it. And I, I, I was just doing that at five years old.

Steve Cuden: And, and did you realize, truly realize at that time that you had special vocal ability?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I think so, yeah. Yeah,

Steve Cuden: you did. At what point, singing beyond that, did you think to yourself, you know what, I really am good enough to become a professional?

Was it early on?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Well, that happened, uh, that happened later on, uh, in, in adulthood. And, uh, it was something that was a bit hidden away for a long time. And then I, um, I brought it out. Brought it out in a big way, and it was, yeah, for, for a long time. It was dormant though. I, I put my, um, my academic life first, which I don’t regret.

It’s something that I, I hold very dear, and that’s my studies in psychology. And then, yeah, I think, I think after that though, once I finished my postgraduate diploma, I wanted to branch out and, and bring out something in me that had been, uh, laying dormant for a long time.

Steve Cuden: So I think the listeners should absolutely pay attention to what Alexandra’s just said, which is that her education was at least as important as the performing part of her life, if not more so for a time.

Absolutely. I think that that’s, uh, really incredible. ’cause not everybody thinks that way. And I agree with you, by the way. I think that the, the education is at least as important. Did, did you have formal singing training at some point?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I did for a short time, maybe about a year and a half, where I just, uh, honed in on the skill and, uh, sharpened what I, what had.

Mm-hmm. And that was, uh, that was around the time I was doing a lot of, um, live performances weddings, uh. Events, um, this kind of thing. And I wanted to be, I wanted to get better. I’m always interested in, in sharpening my skillset. So

Steve Cuden: are you, are you still performing live?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Um, yes and no.

Steve Cuden: What does that mean?

Explain.

Alexandra Hainsworth: So, uh, I am not, not as much as, as I’d like to, but, uh, I am, you know, I’m in the works. I’m, I’m in the works to, to, to do it more. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. Well, you’ve got, you know, a lot of followers and also you’ve got lots of material out there in the world. So I would assume that there would be a place for you to be singing where people would come see you.

Um, your work falls in, uh, you call it pop music. I think of your music as definitely pop, but also it has a really great, many of your songs have a really great. Club Dance Beat. Is that intentional?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, yes. Uh, the, the core of my music is, is pop, but I, I always branch out into different genres. So you’ll see in my work, EDM, electronic dance music, you’ll see a bit of jazz.

You’ll see a bit of soul. I have a country song. I, I branch out into different things. I’ve got house as well that I’ve dabbled in, and it, it’s because I, I want it to be versatile and interesting for all you listeners,

Steve Cuden: so you have a varied taste in what you wanna sing. What draws you to a song? What, what brings you to a genre or a song?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Well, if anyone listened to my liked songs on Spotify, they’ll see everything from classical to, you know, dubstep. You know, it’s a very Yes, indeed. Very with it. Um, and I think there’s so many beautiful parts of, of, of music, you know, you can appreciate so many different types of music and, and I, I guess what draws me to songs and music is that regardless of what’s going on in your life, you can kind of get lost in it.

Steve Cuden: That’s true.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Do you find that as your life is unfolding and as things feel a certain way to you, you’re drawn to different types of music? Is that how it works?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, definitely. And I, I, I feel that that’s for everybody, isn’t it? You know, you, you’re in a certain moment in your life and you listen to certain music and then, and then you go to another chapter of your life and you might be more drawn to a very different type of music.

And it really depends on what you are, what we were experiencing at the time. For sure.

Steve Cuden: So for you, I’m gonna ask you a question I ask lots of guests. Mm-hmm. It’s not necessarily an easy question, but for you, can you define what makes a good song good, good enough for you to work on?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Hmm. I’m very deep, so I want the lyrics to meme something.

I, I want it to, uh, bring something that’s, uh, that’s substantial. Um, I don’t like music that’s just for the sake of it, for, for just to bop around. Like, you know, I, I feel, and, and, and, and that’s how I feel as a songwriter. You know, I think, I think songwriting should have this, uh, message that you’re trying to put across.

Steve Cuden: I think that that’s actually, uh, quite excellent because many pop songs that we’re talking about pop are just fluffy. Yeah. They’re not, they really don’t have any depth. Yes. And your work doesn’t, your work has some depth to it.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes, absolutely.

Steve Cuden: Do you select your music with the audience in mind? Are you thinking about them or is it mostly to, to appeal to you?

Alexandra Hainsworth: It’s a story. So it’s definitely for the audience, but it’s also, I guess, drawing on my own life experience and the, and the message I want to bring. So I guess it’s both.

Steve Cuden: Do you write your own stuff too?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes, absolutely.

Steve Cuden: Is everything that I’ve listened to, ’cause I’ve listened to quite a few songs on, uh, Spotify Is everything written by you?

Alexandra Hainsworth: So there are some co-writes in there, but not a lot. It’s, it’s primarily just myself. I mean, there, there have been a certain stanza or you know, a certain part of the song that was co-written, but primarily, I, I think if I could put percentage wise, it’d be like 95% me,

Steve Cuden: 95% you, and you write both music and lyrics.

Alexandra Hainsworth: So I, I write the, the, the melody line, the, the singing portion, and I write the, um, the lyrics. And then I have a music producer mm-hmm. That I work with. So I’ve worked with many different wonderful music producers from all over the world. And, uh, it’s been this wonderful experience of, of just drawing on, uh, on different talents really across the world.

Steve Cuden: On. What do you compose? Do you, do you play an instrument?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I’m not a composer. I’m, I’m only a, a singer songwriter,

Steve Cuden: so, so, okay. So take us through that process. Do you hum the melody out? How does that work?

Alexandra Hainsworth: So it can happen, uh, in different ways. So sometimes it’ll be that the producers come up with an idea and then I start writing to the music.

But in other times I have completely just come up with it on my own without any music whatsoever. And then they come in with something that would suit what I, what the vision is. So it can happen either way.

Steve Cuden: Alright, but you don’t play an instrument, so how do you communicate? Just by singing a melody, how does it work?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes. All, all vocals. So it might be as simple as just, yeah. Uh, just singing into my phone.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Alexandra Hainsworth: The, the way I want it, you know, the way I vision the song.

Steve Cuden: So you hear it, you hear it in your head and, and, and don’t really have. I guess the ability to play it on a piano or a guitar or whatever it would be, you’re just humming it out.

I think that’s fascinating.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I, um, yeah, it’s all voice.

Steve Cuden: It’s all voice and mm-hmm. And then you give it to a producer and they then arrange it. They decide, I’m gonna suggest this sound, this tone, these, these instruments. And then you’re making decisions in joint collaboration.

Alexandra Hainsworth: That’s right.

And that’s where the collaborating comes in as two creatives. How, how do we create something beautiful, you know? And, uh, yeah. That, that’s, that’s pretty much the process. Like I said, sometimes it can be that, uh, the producers come up with an idea.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra Hainsworth: And then I work with that. Okay. This would be this lyric, this, this, uh, way melody line’s gonna really suit what you just come up with.

Yeah, it, like I said, it can go either way.

Steve Cuden: So, you know, I have a feeling I know what the answer to this question’s going to be, but I certainly want to explore it anyway. When I listen to you sing, I, I can tell that you love what you’re doing. It comes through. And so I’m wondering how much does passion for the music factor into how you perform it?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, it’s everything. It’s absolutely everything. It, it, it’s, it’s critical, you know, it’s, uh, it’s the reason I sing in the first place. There’s the fire in the heart, the, the passion, the the, the wanting to put the message out. I, I, I’m a personal believer in God and I believe in purpose and, and, uh, I believe that’s why I’m here.

And so I, I’m very passionate about my being here and my being here is to put out a message and it’s, uh, in singing ’cause uh, that’s what I’ve been given.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s, that’s for sure. Do, do you think of music as a calling?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes, 100%.

Steve Cuden: It’s a calling. Well, for many creative people that whatever their discipline is, they feel that it’s a calling as well.

And I, I, I’m always interested in when uh, people feel that way. It’s not just job or work or something, it is actually something coming from within them that burns. As you say, it’s a burning desire. I, is there anything that you do special to find your way to singing in an inspired way?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Hmm. It’s very natural.

It, it’s not, it’s not contrived, it’s not brought out. It just happens. And it can, it can happen, uh, at three o’clock in the morning and you’re trying to sleep. I guess it’s, it is one of those things, um, you know, it’s, it’s a very organic process,

Steve Cuden: so, so you sometimes wake up in the middle of the night ready to go?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh yeah. And if I don’t, I’ll regret it. I regret not remembering, you know, the, the thought I had, the, uh, melody I had and the, the lyrics. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Do you, so many people that are, um, writers and artists of various sorts will have some kind of a device, whether it’s a pad of paper and a pen, or might be a cell phone, or it could be a recording device of some kind.

Do you have that by your bed so that when you wake up with a thought, you can record it?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yep.

Steve Cuden: That’s how you do it. So

Alexandra Hainsworth: the phone must be there. And I am very old school, so I love my paper and pen. My paper and pen is very important to me. Um, I couldn’t possibly write lyrics on a laptop, for instance. Like it, it’s got to be a paper and pen.

I’m left-handed. So that actually activates the right side of your brain, which is your creative center.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra Hainsworth: And, um, I think that helps a lot when I’m just, I’m writing with my left hand. It’s, uh, activating that, that center of my brain, and it’s, uh, it’s bringing out all the stuff I want it to bring out.

So,

Steve Cuden: so, so you don’t, you don’t actually write the lyrics on a computer until after, I assume you have them written out.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, only because I have to afterwards. But

Steve Cuden: what, what usually comes first for you? This is a classic question that people ask songwriters. What comes first for you? Typically lyrics or music,

Alexandra Hainsworth: usually the lyrics,

Steve Cuden: lyrics.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Again, it can happen in both ways. Well, of course. So it’s, it’s, uh oh, what, what comes first? The chicken or the egg? I mean, yeah, it’s, uh,

Steve Cuden: exactly. But so for instance, if you look at the career of Elton John and Bernie Toppin as songwriters, it’s almost always the words first. And classically, if you look at many Broadway composers, songwriters, it’s the words first, and then a composer writes to those words, but it works very much the other way as well.

That’s why I was curious about how you do it. What you’re saying is, and I’m, I’m guessing I’ll be right, is that they happen simultaneously frequently.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes. Yes. And it can happen one or the other as well. I mean, you can, you can have a, a tune in your mind. And that sounds really good. Okay. How can I put some words to that?

Or it might be the message first. It’s like, I want these lyrics to fit some, uh, a melody. To fit some notes. So it, it’s, uh, yeah, it can happen either way for sure. I,

Steve Cuden: I assume you realize that not everybody has that capability. Yes.

Alexandra Hainsworth: I guess I’m just, you know, just, uh, assuming that. My brain works the same as everybody else’s, but it probably does.

No, most,

Steve Cuden: I would say the majority of people don’t think of music in their head and they don’t think of lyrics, and so that’s a special ability that you have. I think that’s, you know, I’m glad you take advantage of it because you have it there. I think if you didn’t take advantage of it, it might make you feel a little crazy.

So getting that out is a good thing. Yeah.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh yeah. I mean, if it was stuck there, yeah. I go a bit, uh, bats a bit crazy. So needs to come out

Steve Cuden: once you have an idea, about how long does it typically, I know it’s gonna be ver it’s gonna be varied, but typically how long does it take you to then finish writing a song?

Is it usually fairly fast or does it take you a while?

Alexandra Hainsworth: For me, yeah. It’s quite rapid. It’s, it’s like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Down on the page. You know? I get, I either get it in the moment. Or you lose it. And that’s why it’s so important to like, commit yourself to your idea no matter what the time, no matter where you are, no matter what you’re doing, um, you need to get it down on a piece of paper.

Steve Cuden: Do you find yourself when you’ve got the brainstorm going, that if people try to talk to you, you have to go away and, and, and get isolated?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes, yes. I must isolate myself, so I must get away from the, from the noise and, uh, silence. Silence is such a powerful thing because when you’re alone and you’re in your silence, that’s when you can really bring out the what’s in your head.

So.

Steve Cuden: Do, do you know the movie Thelma and Louise? Yes. So the woman who wrote that is, her name is Callie Curry, and she famously once said that she needed to find the quiet enough to hear the characters talking.

Alexandra Hainsworth: That’s

Steve Cuden: sort of what you’re talking about.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Yeah. You need to, you need to drown out all the noise of your life.

All the noise of the people around you. Everybody needs to go away and you need to, you need to yeah. Hear those, uh, characters of your story. ’cause I mean, uh, for me songwriting is, is storytelling. And as an author as well, my book, kingdom of Flight, you know, you gotta get those. We’re

Steve Cuden: gonna, we’re gonna get to Kingdom of Flight here in just one moment, I just wanna finish up about, about singing and songwriting, which I think is very fascinating to me.

Um. Do you do anything differently now when you’re recording music in the studio than when you first started? What have you learned about recording in the studio?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Stop being so self-conscious. I used to be, I used to, I can like really belt out song and just really make it amazing when I’m all on my own and then I had to learn.

Just forget that there’s a person there and people, you need to just do what you were doing in the first place. Um, so yeah, I had to stop being self-conscious and, and just get on with it.

Steve Cuden: Is is that, because, forgive me for asking this, but is it because you’re shy or when you say self-conscious, what does that mean?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was, I was always a shy kid and I’m, I’m still shy. Surprisingly

Steve Cuden: well, are you shy when you get on stage, when you do perform? Are you shy then too?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I transform, I do this, this interesting thing where I go from shy little girl that I’ve been my whole life to performer and uh, and I’ve been told that, I’ve been told there’s a transformation and there really is, is you, you get that you’re, you’re in your element.

And again, you just forget that there are people there and you tell your story and your message,

Steve Cuden: you, you know, who else goes through that? As famously as Beyonce, who changes from a, apparently a fairly reserved, quiet person to what she, this other character of her called Sasha Fierce.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh yes. I think I vaguely remember that.

Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Yeah. So I mean that’s, I think that that’s not uncommon, or I should say it straightforward. It’s fairly common for performers who are known for their intensity to actually not be that intense off stage or off camera. Um, so when you are producing a new song, do you start with a goal in the studio to arrive at a certain sound by the end?

Or do you go into the studio seeking to find that sound?

Alexandra Hainsworth: No, I, I go into the studios, neither of those actually, it’s, uh, I, I’ve got it all figured out before I hit the studio. The message is clear in my head. The, the intention is there, and all I gotta do is, is bring it out. And like I said, I have to, I have to forget anybody’s there.

I have to pretend I’m on my own and, uh, bring it out with the best intensity and passion that I can.

Steve Cuden: So how do you then psych yourself into having nobody there? What do you do?

Alexandra Hainsworth: It’s a just a very disciplined mental process, I guess. You have to be very disciplined with yourself and, um, remind yourself why you’re there, what message you wanna bring to the world, and how important that is to, mm-hmm.

To, to me, I guess. And yeah, once you, once you’re in that mode and you’re just like, this is, this is why I’m here. This is my purpose, this is my why I’m alive. I, I’ve got to get on with it. I’ve got to make sure it, it, it works and make sure it’s good and make sure my listeners can feel it and, and relate to it and be a part of it.

Steve Cuden: So many performers have, and, and writers and producers and directors have what’s called imposter syndrome, where they go in and they feel, why are people thinking I’m any good at this? And then they have to overcome that in order to do their work. That’s not what you’re going through, is it?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I guess to some degree, yes, to a degree.

I mean, you, you always second guess yourself. You, I mean, for me, I’m always trying to be better. Mm-hmm. I’m, you know, I will be critical of myself. Sometimes too much. Uh, so again, you gotta be disciplined and you, you have to be like, right, look, just focus. Now.

Steve Cuden: You are not alone in that. That’s, that’s not unique to you.

You know, lots of people have that issue.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: It’s because all the spotlight suddenly turns on you when you’re in the studio or on stage or wherever it is. The whole spotlight turns to you. So. Not everybody likes that, and you have to overcome it. And I think that’s, I think that sounds like what you’re talking about.

Am I, am I on the right track there?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, uh, you know, there is, there is an imposter syndrome element. Definitely.

Steve Cuden: Listen, I’ve been in the business for decades and I still have it, so, you know, it’s not unusual at all. So, okay. I’m, I’m curious, what do you do to prepare yourself when you’re going.

Either end of the studio or on stage. What do you do to prepare yourself vocally? Do you have exercises? You do?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. You must warm up your vocals, otherwise it’s not gonna come out the way. What do you do? Uh, just very, very simple, uh, ahs and no, and. Yeah, just really warming up. Cup of tea, critical

Steve Cuden: cup of tea.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Warm up those vocals

Steve Cuden: That is very British of you.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh yes it is. It’s

Steve Cuden: what are, what would you say are the bigger challenges that you face when you are recording? Was it, is it overcoming the shyness? Or what are the other challenges that you typically face that you must overcome?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I think trying to find the balance between reading the lyrics on your page and, and being inside the moment.

Um, I always have my lyrics there just in case, but I know the song inside Out. So it’s trying to find the balance between reading the, the, the lyrics on the page and then, and then being in the story and, and getting the vocal out. So it’s a very delicate balance. I mean, you can’t just be there just reading it and then just not getting into the moment.

So yeah, it’s, it’s, it can be difficult at times.

Steve Cuden: I imagine it is, would you say that your prep to get to the studio or to a performance, uh, requires many hours of working the song, memorizing, getting the, the, the, uh, notes, right. Is it many hours or are you real quick study?

Alexandra Hainsworth: You need to know your song inside out.

Mm-hmm. You need to know it back to front. You need to, yeah. You need to be so familiar with it. So that when you do get to the studio, you are ready to go. And, uh, that’s, that’s always been my, my way of way of doing it. Um, once I’m in the studio, I’ve been preparing for this for a long time,

Steve Cuden: so it, so it takes you quite a while to get yourself to where you really feel like you know it.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Yeah. I, you gotta be disciplined enough to, to almost get sick of the song.

Steve Cuden: Does that ever happen? You don’t ever get, do you ever get sick of the song before you record it? No, actually no, I don’t. No, I wouldn’t think because it’s so, it’s all fresh at that point.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I say that, but yeah, no, I, I don’t ever, ever get sick of it.

And

Steve Cuden: you’re not, your, your thing is not to sing standards or existing songs. Your thing is to, to create new work. Am I correct?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, I can’t get enough of the greats and Oh, is that right? The standards? Oh, I mean, I’m constantly singing, you know, Whitney Houston, Shania Twain, Tina Turner, you know, I can’t get enough.

Yeah, it’s a, they’re full appreciation music, not just my own.

Steve Cuden: What do you think you’ve learned from them? Who, who do you take the most from, do you think?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Hmm. Probably Celine Dion.

Steve Cuden: Ooh, that’s a high bar.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah, because she really is, she’s like this gold standard and, uh, who wouldn’t be in awe the way she can just, uh, command that stage and, and her talent, uh, she’s a, a huge inspiration and so is Whitney Houston.

I mean, you can’t get past Whitney Houston.

Steve Cuden: Can you think of anything that they do that you have, um, aspired to, and I’m talking about technically, specifically, is there something that you try to, to use or you’ve learned from them?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I think it all comes back to passion. Mm-hmm.

Steve Cuden: And

Alexandra Hainsworth: when I see that passion in another vocalist, it just, it makes me excited.

You know, I’m, I, I really, uh, admire it. A lot. And I like the, the fact that it seems to come from a, um, a deep place. And that’s why I identify with, I mean, for instance, uh, Noah Kaung, if that’s how you say it, stick season. I mean, that’s just what a passionate song. What a beautiful, beautiful, passionate song.

And, uh, yeah, like I said, I get, I get excited when I see other passionate artists.

Steve Cuden: For the listeners, I think that that’s something for them to consider to, to listen to others, to learn from them just like you do and to take from them that kind of passion. Otherwise, it’s, it might come out technically, right, but it won’t have that, that heart.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Hmm. Absolutely. I, I think, uh, you know, like what you said before, you know, some, some pop is very empty. Mm. And it’s not the way music’s supposed to be in, in my opinion. You, you’re supposed to be putting out a message. Supposed to be trying to do something good for the world. There’s, there’s that much bad, you know, you need to try and do something good.

And, uh, that for me, what music is, is, is, is trying to bring a bit of light in a bit of brightness and, uh, well, that’s what it means to me anyway.

Steve Cuden: But I think that that’s, uh, a marvelous thing to do. So. Alright, let’s talk for a moment about your new book, uh, which is called Kingdom of Flight. Are you able to tell the listeners what it’s about?

I, I’ve not had the privilege to read it yet, but tell the listeners what it’s about.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Kingdom of Flight is based in the year 5,000. Humans are no longer here. We have completely vanished. And the new dominant species are birds. And so it’s, it, uh, follows along a story of survival, comradery, loyalty, and, uh, environmental change as well, because, uh, it’s based on, uh, the rising sea levels have catapulted the planet into chaos.

And so there’s only one island left on the planet. And birds are the only ones that have really managed to survive apart from other very small species. But the, the dominant species are birds.

Steve Cuden: Is it that the island is actually the top of a mountain?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah, it’s a highland. It’s a highland that, uh, managed to save its peaks above water.

Steve Cuden: And where did this idea come from? I mean, that’s a fantastic idea. Where did it come from?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I had the privilege of working with Victor Paul. Mm-hmm. So it’s a co-written novella. And, uh, he told me this, the, the rough skeleton, the rough idea. And, uh, he liked my short stories that I’ve done. And he said, do you wanna get on board with this?

Because I’ve got this idea and I’m like, that sounds incredible. Yes, yes. And more. Yes. So we put our heads together and uh, came up with, uh, what is now Kingdom of Flight.

Steve Cuden: Hmm. Uh, has your ability to write been with you since you were a little girl as well? Like you’re singing?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I think my writing came more about high school time.

Steve Cuden: High school.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Where I wrote a lot of poetry, a lot of short stories, and I was, uh, heavily into English literature, uh, great Gatsby and, uh, the importance of being earnest by Oscar Wilde, you know, this, this inspired me and, uh, got me really into writing. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: And, and so how long did it take to write the whole book?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Whew. It was a long process because we. Had a lot of, uh, creative, uh, clashes.

Steve Cuden: Um, the collaborative, the collaborative process.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes, yes. But you know, that’s what makes it so great. Sure. You can find whatever you want in Kingdom of Flight because you’ve got two people who totally think totally differently. So you’re gonna get, um, this multifaceted perspective, and I think that’s why it’s quite special.

Steve Cuden: So let’s talk about that process. You, uh, Victor says, I have this idea. You say, that’s a great idea. You decide to work on it together. Did you sit down and draft out an outline and develop characters? How, how, what, how, where did you start?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah, that’s right. So you, you start with a skeleton, you start with the main characters, and then you, um, extrapolate from there, you know, the new characters come in, new scenes come in.

It’s a, it’s like a growing process, I guess. From the core into like, I guess what I would explain to be like a, instead of a little sapling, it becomes a big tree.

Steve Cuden: Oh, that’s it. Well, that’s how it works. You, you build it piece by piece. It, it just doesn’t all, you know, a book doesn’t just happen in a day. It takes a little while.

Um, how did you develop your characters? Where, where are these characters based on it as birds?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Uh, these characters, so some came from Victor and some came from myself and mm-hmm. That’s the other really fun part of it, is that he had a certain idea how he wanted certain characters, and then I had ideas about how I wanted my characters and how can we fit them all together in this story.

And um, and I feel, I feel we did a, a pretty good job. I, I feel that the, the characters work well together and, and like I said, it, it, uh, they’re so different that you get a multifaceted view. Not just one view, but many views.

Steve Cuden: Alright, so you’ve got these characters, they’re all birds. They’re not humans, do they?

Oh, yes. Do they talk, do they talk like humans?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah, yeah. Uh, what’s the word? Uh, anthropomorphic.

Steve Cuden: Anthropomorphic,

Alexandra Hainsworth: like the Lion King.

Steve Cuden: Like the Lion King. Got it. And so as you were developing these characters, do either of you draw, did you draw anything out to give you imagery to look at? Or how did, how did you figure out what they look like?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Only, um, only the front cover and what you’ll see on the front cover is the eagle, the crow, and the owl. Mm-hmm. And these are the main characters. I drew them out, um, together and how I thought they should be. Present. And, uh, but apart from that, um, no. There, there was, there wasn’t any other drawings apart from that, that, that was kind of where, where it started with these three, which is a Zoltan, who is the eagle?

Nero, who is the Crow, and a como who is the, uh, like an elder who’s the owl?

Steve Cuden: What kind of message are you hoping that the book sends?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Loyalty, friendship. And an appreciation for life itself,

Steve Cuden: especially since there are no humans left. That’s, you know, a little bleak when you think about it. Since nobody’s left.

Yeah.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, we stuffed it up. We stuffed it up and, uh, there’s no more humans. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Well, uh, there are, there are days when I think we’re headed that way, you know, it’s a little scary sometimes. Uh, but I still have hope. I have hope that we’ll. Humanity will survive what we’re doing right now. Yes. Yes. Um, did you use an editor on the book?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh yeah. Yes. Yes. We had a, um, we had an editor, uh, our publisher did a, a tiny bit of tweaking

Steve Cuden: mm-hmm.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Here and there.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm.

Alexandra Hainsworth: And, uh, not a lot though, like it was just tiny little sprinkle at the end. They, they wanted to do so. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Did you receive notes along the way from anyone? Did anybody say, Hey, you know what, if you did this, that, or the other thing?

Yeah.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. A few notes. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: And how did you take those notes? How did you absorb them? Was it easy for you to absorb them?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Well, I’ve learned to absorb every kind of constructive criticism. I used to be quite, what was the word, like, resistant to it. Um, but, uh, I’ve learned to absorb constructive criticism, and it’s a very important skill in life.

I find, you know, don’t just, you know, throw people’s advice away. It could be very good for you.

Steve Cuden: This is such an important thing that you just said, and I, I want the listeners to really pay attention to what Alexandra just said. It’s really important that you listen to what others say, even if you don’t agree with what they’re saying.

Mm-hmm. I, I found that sometimes notes in my career that I’ve been given, I didn’t, like, I couldn’t figure out what to do with, but frequently they led me down some other direction that made things better. Hmm. Taking the notes are really important, which is why I asked that question. What is it that you enjoy most about writing?

What do you enjoy about the process?

Alexandra Hainsworth: I think it was a real break away from music. You know, it was a, it was, I had to challenge myself in a very different creative way. And I got to the point where I had headaches. That’s when you know you’re really working hard and, um, it, I was like, okay, well I’m really extending myself here.

I’m really, um, really getting out a different part of my creativity. And it was a very enjoyable. Difficult process.

Steve Cuden: It is a difficult process for, I think most writers, some writers, it’s a piece of cake, but most have a tough time because, you know, you’ve got a blank screen that you have to overcome or a blank page, and

Alexandra Hainsworth: uh,

Steve Cuden: that’s what they call the tyranny of the blank page.

It’s very challenging.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, it’s daunting. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, absolutely. Daunting. Did you have deadlines? Did you work against a deadline of any kind? Um.

Alexandra Hainsworth: No. Funnily enough, we didn’t have any deadlines. We just, uh, worked as organically as we could and as, as, as, as fast as we could.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. But

Alexandra Hainsworth: yeah, no, definitely no deadlines.

It was, um, it was trying to make it as, as perfect as we could get it.

Steve Cuden: So you say it took a long time. Was it months, years? I’m just curious.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Kingdom of Flight was three years in the making.

Steve Cuden: Three years. That’s, that’s also not uncommon. It frequently happens that way. So we talked a little bit about your collaboration with Victor on this.

So would you go back and forth with pages? How did this collaboration work? Or did you do most of the writing just based on conversation or how did it work?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Uh, so I would work on one chapter. He’s working on another one. Got it. Split up the work, divide and conquer.

Steve Cuden: And then did you hand the, the chapters off to each other and you would do revisions?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So once I’m done with a chapter, he’ll go and, and grab that chapter and, and do what he’s gonna do with. And, uh, and then we look at it again. It’s, I mean, you, you look at it so many times to make sure that of course, it’s what you want it to be. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: And, and so there was a lot of revision and a lot of rewriting then.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the story itself didn’t take three years. I mean, it is just that it took three years to get it out because we had some, yeah, some, some, some issues with various things.

Steve Cuden: What do you believe makes a good collaboration then work? What, what worked?

Alexandra Hainsworth: What makes a good collaboration work is, is really being a good listener.

Mm-hmm. If you are not willing to listen to what they have to say and really listen. Then you’re really not gonna grow as a writer. And so it’s really important to, to listen and to, uh, absorb.

Steve Cuden: I think that’s a, that’s true for all kinds of things, but in particular in artistic collaborations or partnerships.

If you’re not listening to each other, it’s really not gonna work very well. I think, um, I assume that in the history of the world, there have been. Partners and collaborators. Well, Gilbert and Sullivan famously didn’t talk to each other. They just gave each other stuff. But most partnerships, ’cause I’ve dealt with that too in my life.

You have to have a people that listen to each other. You don’t have to agree with each other. Right. But you have to listen.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Absolutely. And so you have to compromise like what, what we found was, uh, can’t have it all my way. Can’t have it all his way. So you’ve got to come to the middle. That’s life as well, you know,

Steve Cuden: so, so let’s talk about Four Paws.

What is that? Tell the listeners what that is and you, what your part in it is.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes, four Paws Australia has a very sweet part of my heart because what they’re going and doing out there is, is protecting these poor, innocent creatures from these cruel, cruel, cruel environments that they’re in. So, uh, this could mean chickens, it could mean dogs, cats, goats, cows.

Tigers and recently, uh, I did a campaign. I helped with a campaign, uh, to ban fur sales in Australia because there is a terrible, cruel farming industry that needs to be stopped. And uh, and I’m very proud to be a part of that because I’ve been an animal lover since day dot. And it’s a very important and a good thing to be part of, I think.

I feel.

Steve Cuden: What are the big challenges that are confronting animals in Australia right now?

Alexandra Hainsworth: The deforestation is, is terrible. Our koalas and our kangaroos and our wombats, they’re, they’re under threat. And, um, yeah, there needs to be more done about this. Um, and more, uh, more laws surrounding the protection of, of these, uh, forest areas.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. Is it a climate issue or is it a people issue?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, it’s people. It’s

Steve Cuden: people.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Mm-hmm.

Steve Cuden: Because they’re doing all this destruction to the animals and to their environment as well.

Alexandra Hainsworth: The de Yeah, the de the deforestation, um, is just happening at such a rate that the wildlife just can’t sustain, can’t keep up.

So it’s very important that we as a society get together and say, no, there needs to be limits around this. There needs to be boundaries. Otherwise we’re gonna wipe out everything precious to us.

Steve Cuden: Well, that seems to be a big issue all over the world right now is are we gonna wipe all these wonderful environmental things out and let’s hope that we don’t, because it wouldn’t be good for us.

And then we’ll wind up with a planet that’s, we’ll just have an island in ca, like kingdom a flight. Yes. And we won’t be here. And we won’t, won’t be here is right. Um, I, I do want to chat with you for just a brief moment about your work in psychology. Obviously you, you have a degree in in that. Yes,

Alexandra Hainsworth: I do.

Yes. So I have a, uh, a degree in psychology and I have postgraduate qualifications as well. I have a graduate diploma in consultancy psychology.

Steve Cuden: I’m wondering, have your psychology studies helped you in any way with your music?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes, because understanding people is critical and psychology is all about what does what, what makes people tick.

And I think understanding myself better because, uh, during my psychology studies, I understood better, uh, where I’d come from and, and the way I think. So, um, yeah, absolutely. It was, it was, uh, all part and parcel of how I now express and understand myself.

Steve Cuden: I assume it’s sort of the same answer for being a novelist.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes. Again, you know, your creative expression comes from an understanding of yourself and your understanding of yourself comes from, well, for me, a academic standpoint of psychology and, uh, psychology. It really makes you like, uh, analyze, uh, where you’ve come from and, and why you do the things you do.

Steve Cuden: So, alright.

What new songs inspire you today? What are you inspired by?

Alexandra Hainsworth: All my love, Noah Kahan. It’s, uh, it’s romantic, it’s clever, it’s fast-paced. It’s just great.

Steve Cuden: And does that then help you to evolve new music?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yeah. Because you get in, you get inspired by people who are doing, who are getting it right, you know?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you want to then extend yourself creatively and, yeah.

Steve Cuden: Well, I’ve been having just a, a wonderful, fascinating and fun conversation for not quite an hour now with Alexandra Hainsworth, and we’re gonna wind the show down a little bit. And I’m just wondering, in all of your experiences, your many experiences, are you able to share with us a story that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat strange, or just plain funny?

Alexandra Hainsworth: Yes. So I was in the studio narrating, uh, ’cause I’m a narrator as well. Uh, narrating Angels Can Love by Victor Paul. And, uh, it’s a very serious, very heartfelt, uh, deep and meaningful story. And so my tone needed to match that and, uh, needed to be in the zone and the, so. There were many scenes that were, that, that needed that, that level of, um, seriousness to it.

And one of them was when the, the character, the main character is, is going through a low point, um, and dealing with, with alcoholism, and I’m supposed to say, and strong across the floor, were cans and whiskey bottles. That’s what I was supposed to say. This is what I said. A straw across the floor were cans and winky bottles.

And winky. My winky bottles. Yeah. Um, my sound engineer just cracked it and he saved it forevermore.

Steve Cuden: There’s nothing better than, than, uh, malapropisms, which is that what that is? Uh, I I love those. That’s just wonderful. So, final question for you today, Alexandra. Um, you’ve already shared throughout the show an enormous amount of very valuable advice, but I’m wondering if there’s a single piece of advice or a tip that you like to give to those who ask you, you know, what should they do when they’re getting in?

Or maybe they’re in a little bit trying to get to another level.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Authenticity, if I could put it in one word. I think there are, there’s too much falsehoods going out in the world today. And, uh, you, if you’re going to do anything properly, uh, do it authentically and, and genuinely, everyone’s got their strengths and you need to work with that.

And don’t, don’t try and be something you’re not. Be who you are.

Steve Cuden: I think that that is really, um, solid sound advice and that really makes you, the artist that you are, I is to be sound on yourself. Mm-hmm. So you’re not trying to imitate somebody else or be like somebody else. It’s from your, your being.

Alexandra Hainsworth: No, I’m far too crazy to be anybody else.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s what makes you, you. If you’re far too crazy, uh uh, I, you know, join the club. Yeah, yeah. There’s lots of us out there. Alexandra Hainsworth, this has been a lot of fun for me, and I, I can’t thank you enough for your time, your um, your wisdom and for just being the artist that you are. I thank you for being on the show.

Alexandra Hainsworth: Oh, thank you for having me. What a great conversation. Thank you, Steve.

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you are listening to. Your support helps us bring more great story beat episodes to you.

StoryBeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, tune in and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden and may all your stories be unforgettable.