Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat: 

Christian Schu: A narrative film, a long form film is actually a lot of short form films together weaved in one story. You are able to tell deeper stories. You’re able to dive deeper into characters. You, you can show their good sides, their bad sides, their hesitations, their limitations. While in the commercials you are not diving very deep into a character most of the time.

Announcer: This is StoryBeat with Steve Cuden, a podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how Masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment.

Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, Christian Schu is a dedicated filmmaker who sees filmmaking and advertising as storytelling arts. Since becoming a commercial filmmaker in 2015, he’s focused on creating narratives that deeply engage viewers through emotion.

Christian’s career includes working in virtual studios, sporting events, and collaborations with popular German business speakers. Since 2019, Christian has been producing visually stunning content for top Hi-Fi brands, including focal name, Bowers and Wilkins, and Bang and Olfson. His passion for storytelling began with childhood Lego play, now translating into impactful award-winning cinematic work.

So for all those reasons and many more, I’m truly delighted to have the gifted filmmaker Christian Schu join me today. Christian, welcome to Story Beat 

Christian Schu: Steve. Thank you so much. Wow, what a, what a entrance for me, huh? Thank you so much for, for having me on your show. 

Steve Cuden: It is a great privilege to have you. So let’s go back in time a tiny bit in your life.

Yes. How old were you when you first started paying attention to moving images? 

Christian Schu: Huh. Actually, I’ve been quite young. Maybe I started watching tv, like really watching tv 6, 7, 8 years old. Mm-hmm. And I, yeah, I was interested on the camera movements and all these things, but I think I was more interested without even realizing that I’m interested in it.

Uh, I was just fascinated by it. And, uh, like you mentioned, um, before, when I, when I’ve been growing older, like nine or 10 years old, I’ve been not playing with Lego in a standard way anymore. How any kid would do that, uh, by building police stations and fire stations and all those kind of things. Right. In fact, I’ve been building.

TV studios and movie sets and, and I really have these images still in my head. I remember that I’ve been, back then there was VHS tape, so I was recording on the VHS cassette, all those like, uh, afternoon TV talk shows. Right. Not because they were super interesting or because they were killing each other just like, uh, Jerry Springer and those kind of things.

Huh. But I was interested in how can it be that I as an audience, barely see any camera when I’m watching that. Right. You barely see some cameras. Yeah. You see them when they use a crane and so on. Yeah. But, but when they are on, on the shot on the show, you don’t see them. And then I like Recco. We had the same in Germany.

Yeah. So I record and I pause and I go like, frame by frame and I realized, oh, they are there. They just. Black them out. There is like a, like a long line in the back that is basically black and they are hiding there. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Christian Schu: Right behind. So sometimes there is a light coming up and you can see parts of it.

And I was like, ah, okay, let’s see how I can do that. And then I’ve been actually like rebuilding that when I was a child with Lego bricks. Huh. And from there, I, I took it. I’ve been like, oh, interested how can, is it possible to do that? And then it’s all imagination, huh? I was like, ah, can, can we shoot this?

Why they don’t do this kind of movement? They could do that. And then I tried by myself and then I realized, oh, okay, maybe there is some light in the way or whatever. Huh. So this is what, what, uh, made me fascinated with this. 

Steve Cuden: So you were making models as a kid out of Legos in order to make sets like movie sets?

Correct. 

Christian Schu: Exactly. 

Steve Cuden: And are you still making models to pre-visualize things? 

Christian Schu: No, actually, if I think about it now, and you ask me like this, I kind of miss that, huh? Because it’s, it’s really helping, um, to, to, to visualize it. But, uh, no, I’m, I’m not doing that anymore. Now I’m doing the real thing. 

Steve Cuden: Were you paying attention to the actors at the same time or were you more fascinated as a kid, by the way that the camera moved and the way that things looked, was that what truly drew you in?

Christian Schu: Exactly the, the, the actors and the actresses, I, I knew they were good. They were pretending to be something, whatever they should be. And I understood, uh, that you have to have a certain level of talent to be able to do that. This is not by learning. You need to convince people you need to mm-hmm. Like, dive deep into yourself that you, that you are lying.

Actually you are telling a, I mean, it’s, it’s not you, whoever you are portraying as an actress or as an actress. This is what I knew, but what I wanted to understand deeply is the combination of, or what’s the combination of the technical aspect of pushing buttons. I always loved, I’m, I’m a boy, I always love pushing buttons Everywhere.

There was a button, I was pushing it, even though buttons I, I, I should, shouldn’t have pushed. Uh, I can tell you one time we’ve been, um, my mom took me with her to the bank, uh, to, to the, to a local bank. And my mom was getting along very well with all the people behind the counter. And I was like, I don’t know, five, six years old, short, uh, can run around everywhere, going under the desk and so on, and I’ve seen a button.

Under the desk. It was a red button, and I thought it was a good idea to push it, so I pushed it. Yeah. And roughly five minutes later, 10 police officers ran into the bank and, and it turned out that this was the kind of secret button. So I luckily nothing happened to my mom. And there was, everything was good.

That was back in the nineties, everyone was, uh, easygoing, you know? Um, but it was funny, of course, and not so funny. Um, so I, I, I love that, that mix of technical detail with technical camera work and what everything is possible, even back then, plus the side of visualization, imagination. And I had a huge imagination when I was a kid.

I was imagining my own world, let’s say like that. Huh. And I always wanted to. Be able to Yeah. Put that into a movie, into films, into visuals. 

Steve Cuden: You have a very vivid visual imagination. 

Christian Schu: Definitely. 

Steve Cuden: Definitely. And do you think that when you were working on thinking about that back in the day, that you could actually visualize yourself making movies?

Christian Schu: Uh, in fact, when I was a kid, there was no doubt for me that I’m that person. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Christian Schu: But later on, when reality kicked in, let’s say like that, uh, after school and studies and yeah, you need to make money so. I started to make money. I’ve became an insurance broker selling insurances, mostly health insurance and those kind of things.

Things where you can make money with. Uh, I founded companies at the same time, all like in the financial industry. I’ve been doing very well. I cannot say in another way. I had a very nice life, um, nice apartment, nice car, you know, all the, all the things that, that you would like to have. But I was not happy.

Uh, there was something missing. I was successful in what I was doing, but there was something missing. And, um, there was one day when, when I’ve been hitting some, yeah, like crossroads when, when I needed to decide whether I want to go back with. Insurance brokerage, which I didn’t do back then anymore since like two years I’ve been building up companies and we’ve been having a, I I’ve been having a, a business partner where, um, that, that, uh, I’ve been doing coaching with, you know, like financial advising and so on, not, not like selling anything anymore by myself.

We had people to do that. Uh, but my business partner’s wife, uh, got cancer and died from that. Oh. Very young. Like, uh, I think 35 back then. Uh, and I was still in my twenties. Uh, and yeah, and then I was reaching that, that, that crossroad where I was, where I had to decide what way, what path I. Am I going to, to choose?

Steve Cuden: That certainly helped you to see it as life being short. It needed to do what you wanted to do. A 

Christian Schu: hundred percent. That changed everything, simply changed everything in my life. Uh, I, I started to change my diet, uh, away from Coca-Cola and McDonald’s to organic sections and, and many more things that changed.

And actually it, yeah, I mean this is terrible that it happened, but for me, it might have been the best thing in my life because I was, 

Steve Cuden: it was a wake up call for you. 

Christian Schu: It was a wake up call and I was thrown into a situation where I needed to decide where I go. I didn’t wanted to, to sell insurances anymore and real estate and stuff like that.

It didn’t feel good. I was successful at it, but it didn’t feel good. I wasn’t fulfilled with it. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Christian Schu: And then I was sitting in my office and, uh, I, I had this memory coming back, me being this eight, nine, 10-year-old, I don’t remember. Huh? 10-year-old boy sitting down with the Lego bricks. Building commercial, yeah.

Uh, building film stats and studios and TV sets. And I’ve been shaking my head about, about my own, uh, uh, memory because I was like, uh, Christian, are you, are you who? Are you kidding? You never learned that This is not something like you, alright, let’s do that. Now we start, this is something you need to learn.

You need to understand the camera and so on and so on. Yeah. But, uh, it didn’t let me go. I, I, I had this brainwave and it, I, I couldn’t, I couldn’t think about something else anymore. So 

Steve Cuden: did you go back to school in some way? Did you go to training in any way? You just taught yourself? No. 

Christian Schu: I taught myself fully.

I, it took me one month to decide on it, and then I, I built up a green screen studio because back then in 2015, green screen studios were all over the place. Everyone wanted to do an online course with a green screen studio, uh, and a virtual background. Mm-hmm. So I thought, yeah, okay, why not start with this?

This is rather challenging compared to normal, let’s say filmmaking. Yeah. Because you need to make sure about a lot about lighting and this and that. So I thought, okay, learn it the hard way. You need to learn it anyway, and now you have the passion for it. So, okay, come on, eh, I asked a friend, he helped me to build it up by myself.

I bought, you know, the acoustic form panels and all of these things, and we build a 50 square meter, um, green screen studio that translates to. If not mistaken, 250 square feet. Okay. If not mistaken, rather small studio. Yeah. But it was fine for, for back then and, and then I dived in, I watched countless YouTube videos and I just took the camera.

Luckily I had some money, so I was able to buy the equipment that I needed to start with and also the, the, the studio stuff. And then I started to film and I started to learn it the hard way. 

Steve Cuden: Did, did you know anything about, um, movie making or cameras or sound or anything prior to that? Zero. Zero. 

Christian Schu: I had some.

Cy, I had some knowledge about marketing because I’ve been running the marketing part of my company back then already. 

Steve Cuden: Sure, 

Christian Schu: sure. So I knew what is a PowerPoint and how to yeah, how to tell a story. I’ve been good with that. Every second week I’ve been standing on a stage and talking to people. That was what I’ve been doing back then.

Sure. I’ve been telling about crisis and financial crisis. That was like, like still with Lehman Brothers related, you know, the, the financial crash in what, 

Steve Cuden: 2009? Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Christian Schu: 2009 or something like that. All of this, we were, we were educating people why the money system isn’t working that well and why you should have real estate or gold and silver and those kind of things.

But yeah, that was my background and I was able to, to use, uh, back then, today, you would call it Canva back then. I’ve been doing that with, I don’t know, I. Uh, with my own ideas in, in Photoshop basic knowledge kind of thing. 

Steve Cuden: Do you think that your years in business mm-hmm. Helped you to understand how to make a business out of what you’re doing?

Christian Schu: A hundred percent. 

Steve Cuden: So that was a form of training, but not training in filmmaking was a training in how do you make this into a business? 

Christian Schu: Yes. But the thing is, if you know how to make a business, it doesn’t matter so much about what the content of your business is. I mean, right. Of course. Obviously you need to know about your business and you need to learn it.

You need to learn it fast and maybe the hard way. I definitely did. I’ve been like jumping into cold water and needed to learn how to swim, and I did, but. The basic economics around, like how to build up a business. Yeah, I, I knew that, and of course that helped me at the beginning. Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: I would say it would help you.

And I think there are an enormous number of people in the arts in general, specifically in movies for sure. Movies and TV who don’t understand the business part of the business. 

Christian Schu: One, one issue with this, I, I totally agree, Steve. One issue with this is also that, especially in the filmmaking industry, you have so many people who went to film school and then they study being a gaffer.

They study being a focus puller, first ac or a second ac. They studied to be A-D-O-P-A direct, uh, whatever produce. But if you want to be successful in the filmmaking industry, you need to know how to do all of this. You don’t need to know to a extent of a hundred percent. But you need to know the basics, and this is what you learn actually as a solo filmmaker.

When I started, I’ve been fully solo, I’ve been doing everything by myself. The light is not good. Okay? Why is the light not good? Right? I have light outside. Why is it changing that rapidly? I need to learn on it. So I had to learn about it, huh? I made mistakes with stupid mistakes. You know, like the system, the, the wireless system, uh, audio system was not set up correctly.

So I had a, a high pitch, uh, voice in, uh, in, in that recording, and I needed to pay too much money for other people to have that reduced because I didn’t know how to do it by myself. So I needed to learn how to do it by myself. So next time, that wouldn’t happen again. It’s a big process of doing that, but eventually you need to know a little bit with all those things.

Otherwise, everyone can tell you whatever they want. 

Steve Cuden: I will say to you that I think that, uh, that’s exactly the right attitude to have. And if you look at the great filmmakers, if you look at the Martin Scorsese and the Steven Spielbergs and so on, yeah. They will all say similar things that you need to understand every department.

Of course, Stanley Kubrick used to say he needed to understand every department as well or better than they did. 

Christian Schu: Yes. I I can sign that directly. The way you, you, you, you mentioned that I’ve been working in Berlin many years ago with a, with a director coming more or less fresh from film school. Second or third project was a very.

Young and nice lady. I, I liked her, but when it was about working with her, it was a catastrophe. We, we, we had, we’ve been a small team of mm-hmm. Three or four people. Mm-hmm. And she told me, okay, for this shot, we need a gaffer and the first AC and a second AC and a boom op, uh, to hold the, the, the boom pole, you know, for the sound and the sound mixer and this and that, 

Steve Cuden: right.

Christian Schu: And I said, Uhhuh uhhuh. I, I, back then I did the camera and the directing, uh, no, the directing, she did, I did the camera. And whatever department I was needed, I did. Uh, and she was like, yeah, you need that. You need this, you need that. We, we have to, otherwise we cannot do it. And I say, okay, we are three people on set.

Do you want to jump into one position, please, so we can make it today? And not, and not make it in three weeks? Of course, this is what I’m missing. If I understand title is something that is nice to have, but you need to, you need to be able to fulfill when you need to fulfill and there will be no set in the world where you have enough people.

I can tell you. 

Steve Cuden: Well, well that’s always the case. Uh, you know, it doesn’t matter how much money you have, you’re still gonna need more. Yes. Even if it’s a quarter of a billion dollars, you still need another 10 million. Exactly. It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. 

Christian Schu: There will be more. Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: Was there a, a point along the way when you finally thought to yourself, I have this, I’ve got it and I understand what I’m doing and I’m actually good at it.

Was there a at that kind of a moment for you? 

Christian Schu: Yes and no. I don’t think I’m good. I think I can improve myself a lot. Because I am not yet at the level where Christopher Nolan is and Steven Spielberg and all the others. And Christopher Nolan actually started with commercial filmmaking the same way. Maybe I, I’m, I’m not sure if he self-taught or he went to film school.

This I really don’t know. But he also went to, went to make commercials for brands, just like what I did or what I’m doing, uh, nowadays as well. Sure. I think I’m acceptable, but I think I can be a lot better if I focus more, if I learn more, if there are other techniques that I, that I achieve. But when it comes to other people talking about me, they’re very happy.

I always get calls from CEOs that worked with me before or CMOs and they say, Christian, we need you for the next project. Okay, so obviously maybe I didn’t do a, a bad job, huh. But for myself, I am not enough. No. 

Steve Cuden: So I think the, uh, the listeners should pay attention to what Christian is saying, even though he’s good at what he does and he’s in the game and he’s making money and people are hiring him.

He’s always learning and always trying to grow. And I think that that is an especially excellent attitude to have toward this work because you really can’t know everything, can you? 

Christian Schu: You, you can’t. It’s, it’s not possible. And actually this, uh, this, this attitude that, that I, I’m not sure if I always had it.

I, maybe I was always a little bit like not so happy about my work. Can do more, can do better. Mm-hmm. 

Steve Cuden: Self-critical. 

Christian Schu: Yeah, self-critical. But what I also, I. Learned from one of my clients many years ago. He’s a German business speaker. He’s very, very well known. He was a Goldman Sachs banker before in New York, then returned to Europe.

He’s actually an Austrian speaker. He is, what he’s doing basically is he’s buying real estate and, uh, renting it out, like renovating it and renting it out. And I asked him one time when we’ve been working together, I asked him, like on a side note, not on camera. Like, so how, how many do you have? And then he, he told me, oh, I’m poor.

I don’t have many. I’m, I’m, I’m poor. I’m not rich. Uh, back then it was 70 million euro 

Steve Cuden: Wow. 

Christian Schu: Assets. Yeah. Okay. Now I think it’s 35 or 40 million. And he still says from himself, I’m not rich. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Christian Schu: I want to have a hundred million euro, then I’m rich. So 

Steve Cuden: that keeps him hungry. 

Christian Schu: Yes. And I believe this is the key, one of the keys, you need to be hungry.

You’re not hungry. You are. Yeah. You are lazy. 

Steve Cuden: You’ve gone to sleep. 

Christian Schu: Yeah. And other people will overtake you. 

Steve Cuden: That’s really quite sound thinking is that you always want to be looking down the road and not resting on your laurels and always looking for what can you do to improve your circumstances, the what your knowledge is and all the rest of it.

That’s what you’re saying. Am I right? 

Christian Schu: Yes. That’s important. I also love to have, I mean, yeah, I have the option to get new equipment, but I also love to try out new equipment. There is something new out. Okay, let me see. Is does it make sense to involve it in my, uh, shooting, uh, uh, uh, routine? Yeah. Or is it too much or not good enough for whatever I use?

So it is to me, I, I always like to try out new things. Yeah. Uh, a few years ago there was, I mean, yeah, LED lights are up there for a long time, but they were always, or often, uh, only one color. Um, right. Available. Now they are by color and RGBW lights and all those things. And then I was, I’ve been checking, okay, does it enhance my shooting routine?

Should I buy some? And then I tried, hell yes. Yeah. They are amazing. And. You, you have to try, you have to. Yeah. You have to go with the flow and try out new things. And this is just, uh, about LEDs, but it’s, it’s, it’s with everything. 

Steve Cuden: Well, as you alluded to earlier, as you alluded to earlier, it’s a, an art and a craft.

Yeah. It’s both of those things that there’s a technological understanding of it Yes. As well as an artistic understanding of it. And you have to have both. Yes. Understandings. Yes. And the technology is always improving and changing and shifting. It’s, and you’ve gotta keep up with it, don’t you? 

Christian Schu: Definitely, definitely.

I would say yes. On the other hand, and now we are talking about story. If your story sucks, you can have the best equipment. 

Steve Cuden: I have, I have said for a very long time, especially to my students, the greatest special effects you could ever have in a movie. Yeah. Is a great story. Well told 

Christian Schu: a hundred percent agree.

I mean, we, we, we, we all know, I guess we all know the last scene, silence of the Lamps where the Yes. Where, I mean we are talking about nineties. Yeah. A platform is basically driving up because there was not much Camera Green, a platform. Mm-hmm. Driving, riding up into the sky with a camera that weighs, I don’t know, a hundred kg maybe.

Huh? Going up and it staggers. You can see that it stutters up. It doesn’t matter. 

Steve Cuden: Doesn’t matter. 

Christian Schu: Because, and, and yeah, I watch that movie maybe a hundred times. I don’t know. And, and of course I’m a filmmaker. I see those things. 99% of the audience, and especially the ones not in that industry, they don’t care.

It doesn’t matter that it stutters at the side because they focus on Anthony Hopkins walking away. Hannibal Lecter. 

Steve Cuden: Yeah. 

Christian Schu: Hannibal Lecter walking away. And this is it. It’s about the story that the rest is helping you to tell the story. Yes. 

Steve Cuden: This is a very difficult thing to convince young filmmakers about because they’re into the tech, a lot of them.

Not all true, but you know, I’m being general. But there are many of them that are into the tech end of things. Or how do you make this work? Not into how do you tell a great story. And that’s the key. Yes, 

Christian Schu: yes. Steve, a hundred percent agree here. The best, the best, uh, example of making that mistake sitting in, in, in front of the camera.

Now, uh, when I started in 2015 with this, I thought, oh. Okay, I’m going to be a filmmaker and I’m sure this is definitely passion driven. Right now, what do I need? One camera, a drone, a gimbal, a fly cam. You know, the steady cam. Basically 25 to 30 LED lights for my green screen studio traverses and more lights and more this and more that.

And three microphones. And I spent a fortune and at the end all that I needed was a good camera that I had. Mm-hmm. Back then already. And doing it, just doing it. And a great script. You don’t even need a studio. Go to the forest and and shoot something. Learn. Learn what is low light and why do you need an ND filter in front of the camera?

Why you cannot just shoot in bright sunlight? What does it mean? Focal length? What is. Step of field, all these things, Uhhuh sure is something you need to, you need to understand first, and nowadays your iPhone camera is enough. You maybe need another app that, that can, that you can manually control your camera.

Yes. But all of the rest, 

Steve Cuden: it’s just stuff. 

Christian Schu: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: It’s kind of akin to people who start to work in a, in a sport. They become, they want to be an athlete in a sport and they buy all the fancy equipment but don’t know how to use it. You have to learn how to use it. You’ve gotta learn the basics before you can get onto the, let’s call it the professional stuff.

Christian Schu: Yes, exactly. I mean, this is the same if you are buying a treadmill and then you are walking on it sideways. That’s not the point. Yeah. You need to, you need to know how to, how to push the button on your camera, but you also need to know. Uh, what it does, if you zoom in and zoom out and how you move the camera, it’s, it’s no point if you know all the technic de technical details, but you don’t have any, any visual imagination.

Steve Cuden: Well, if you zoom in and zoom out and the moment doesn’t call for a zoom in and zoom out, you’ve made a mistake. Exactly. 

Christian Schu: If it doesn’t nurture your storytelling, then don’t do it. Absolutely. Right. And, and, and, and that’s what, what I also see exactly like when you, what you say about like YouTube and all those fancy young guys doing that.

Yeah. There is one transition after another. Most important, we have it, there is a swoosh here and go up there and go pan down, tilt, whatever it is. Does it help the story? No, it depends. Yeah. At the end you have, you have a one minute and you have 10 different transitions in it. That doesn’t tell anything.

Steve Cuden: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a big problem is, is that again, there, there’s a fascination in the the ooh awe factor of it, when in fact all you need to do is tell the story with the right characters in it. 

Christian Schu: Yes. And I understand, I fully understand that fascination when it comes to this. But, you know, there was, I don’t, I don’t remember the, the, the, the, the Dolly Zoom was introduced, I think in, in vertigo.

Maybe, maybe, yeah. Long ago. I don’t know. Huh? When the camera like drives in and zooms out at the same time or drives out and zooms in. That’s a dolly zoom. Yes. Yes. And it was introduced to, to tell the story of. A face that has a terrible expression in shock or in fear. And then we have this, this, we are so close in that moment that the audience will be like pushed towards that person.

Yeah. That is storytelling. 

Steve Cuden: I think the, I think the greatest example I can think of of using that technique to absolutely tell us about a character in their moment is in Jaws when Spielberg pushes in on, uh, chief Brody at the same time that he’s pulling back in the lens, that really compresses him and makes us feel for him.

And it’s all about feeling for the characters. The audience needs to feel something. 

Christian Schu: Exactly. And that comes down to a good director and a very good story. A director knowing when is the right time to, to Sure, yeah. To use this technique to enhance the story. 

Steve Cuden: So let’s talk for a little bit about what you do.

And you’ve done a bunch of, and it’s not the only thing you do, obviously, but you’ve done a bunch of advertising and making commercials for various companies. You’ve done a lot of that. 

Christian Schu: Yes. 

Steve Cuden: I, I’m curious what first attracted you to making this specific form, which is almost always a short form. It’s very short.

What attracted you to that? 

Christian Schu: Okay. I will be, uh, maybe a little bit unfair when I say that now, but everybody can tell a story in 90 minutes. I agree 

Steve Cuden: with you. 

Christian Schu: But if you can tell a story in 30 seconds, that’s a different thing. 

Steve Cuden: That’s the hardest thing of all to do. It’s like haiku is the hardest form of poetry really.

I think, you know, you got 17 syllables. Yeah. 

Christian Schu: You need to deliver. You just, yeah. You just need to deliver in that moment. And, and it’s also a very. Very harsh industry because if you don’t deliver in that 30 seconds, you might not have a second chance with that client. 

Steve Cuden: Of course, of course. 

Christian Schu: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: So what brought, what brought you to that?

How did you get introduced to that world? 

Christian Schu: Well, it’s good paid, so, uh, at the end, uh, I needed to, to, to, to substitute my, my life and my lifestyle, which wasn’t bad back then. And I always understood, okay, I want to tell stories, but I also want to tell stories for companies that I like, that align with my values.

That’s why I don’t do commercials for certain companies. That doesn’t fit with what I believe in. Huh. Um, and yeah, and for me it was always, it, it, it was always a challenge. I mean, maybe I watched a lot of TV when I was young and I watched a lot of commercials when I was young and I was always. I’ve always found it interesting, what it made with me after that, 30 seconds, 20 seconds, 40 seconds sometimes how I was emotionally different after watching that kind of commercial on tv.

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Christian Schu: I felt like good or bad, whatever was the intention, they were right with me. I’m, I’m a very emotional guy. Yeah. So I’ve been, I’ve been understanding that directly and yeah. I was like, okay, cool. I want to have that impact on people as well. I want them to buy things because of my film. 

Steve Cuden: Okay. So you alluded in your bio to, uh, the fact that you work toward emotion, and you just said it a moment ago about emotion and Yes.

It’s amazing to me when you can watch a commercial and in 30 seconds or a minute, feel something where you get emotional, whether you feel like you’re welling up or you’re overjoyed in, in a very short period of time. Yes. How do you go about achieving that? 

Christian Schu: Um, there is no general tool set, let’s say like that.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, how, how I start with it, let’s say I have a new client and not one, I worked for years already. I have a new client, uh, CEO or CMO, calling me up and saying, Christian, did you do this and this for that and that company? Yeah. Can you do that for us? Yeah. Let’s see if I can do that or not.

Ah, let’s have a call. So we. Sit together and I first of all learn about the target group and the buyer persona because that’s the most important thing nowadays. I mean, 10 years ago, I have even longer, 20 years ago, you, there were a lot of commercials on TV that appealed to maybe 10% of the audience watching it, but it has a wide appeal.

You, you didn’t know who you are targeting directly. Um, that changed a lot because with the targeting techniques we have now with advertising, I mean ad ad tech, uh, marketing in, in, in social media and stuff like that, you can narrow the target group down to actually the people you want to reach as a company.

So when I sit down, I ask about this, I ask, who do you want your products? To yet to sell to who is the ideal customer for you? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there is no, oh, yeah, everybody, yeah. It’s not working like that. Yeah. Because some, some smaller companies also come up with that approach and it’s, it’s always not, not correct.

You need to have some buyer personas. You need to have a target. 

Steve Cuden: It’s much more targeted today, isn’t it? 

Christian Schu: But it always have, has to be. I mean, uh, let’s say, I don’t know, let’s say, uh, I see some doors here because I’m in, in the guest room. So you are your, your company is selling doors. Who is buying doors?

Well, usually either architects, like doing build builders, house builders, building companies, private pers, private people less only if they buy some house. Okay. When do people buy houses? Well, usually when they found the love of their life moving together, right? So that will happen between 25 and let’s say 40 years old.

That’s the main market. So you narrow it down already like this, and then it’s the question who is deciding, uh, what to buy in the house? Of course the wife, huh? That’s right. So at the end, you need to appeal to the wife. It needs to look good, it needs to yeah, be, be good. And then you have narrowed it down already to a, to an extent where I can work with.

And then it’s about, okay, who is on social media? How old are they? What part of that, uh, that group we are talking about people who want to buy a or build a house? Who, who of them are on social media and where are they? What are they interested in is the, is the door company selling very expensive doors or cheap doors or medium doors?

So we narrow it down more and more and more. 

Steve Cuden: So you get involved in the actual creation of the story to be told in the commercial itself? Yes. 

Christian Schu: Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, in fact, I come up, 

Steve Cuden: you’re not working with an advertising agency and they’re handing you a script and you execute it. You’re actually helping develop it.

Christian Schu: I like the process of developing it. Um, I usually, I, I don’t like agency work too much. Yeah. Because, I mean, I did that back in, I did that before, but it’s not you, you, I’m a very creative person and I want to tell my story and I don’t like to be limited by people who don’t understand what I’m doing.

Mm-hmm. And sorry to say that’s that. That’s it. I’m, I’m an entrepreneur business owner since. 2010. This is now, uh, 15 years. I’m self-employed doing my own things, having my companies. I don’t like if people that I don’t like and that don’t understand what I do, tell me what I should do. That’s not what I like.

Right. What I like is to develop a concept to, together with the marketing department, because every big company have a marketing department. They could do it by themselves basically. Mm-hmm. But they rely on me or they call me in, uh, because they know my things work and maybe their things they don’t, they don’t work so good.

Steve Cuden: Right. 

Christian Schu: So yeah, I will develop it together with them, but I need their marketing research. I need their data to be successful. Otherwise, uh, if they give me the wrong data, I can’t be successful with, with what I’m doing. 

Steve Cuden: So going back a half a step, I don’t think you could do what you’re talking about very well if you hadn’t been in business in the first place.

Christian Schu: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: I think that that was lucky for you that you did it that way. Maybe it should have been like this. Yeah. Yes. That’s what I mean. Yeah. I mean, it’s some, somehow you were fortunate that you went that process because as you’re doing what you’re talking about right now, you needed to have that understanding, otherwise you wouldn’t have understood it at all, I don’t think.

Christian Schu: True, true. And I know that some colleagues of mine that, that, that I, uh, get to know, got to know throughout the years, they struggle with this a little bit more because they are not having at least a bit of marketing background. And that’s what you need if you want to be a successful storyteller for commercial.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s about, it’s, it’s about, at the end, it’s about sales. I mean Right. Right. It’s as simple as that. Yeah. If your video you are doing helps the company to sell more, congratulations. Next job coming up. That’s it. 

Steve Cuden: How different is it for you when you look at making this short form film called a commercial or advertisement?

How different is it when then you, you’re considering doing something in the long form narrative world that isn’t a commercial? Is there, are there similarities or are they very different? 

Christian Schu: There are similarities, but yet they are very different. When we are talking about the narrative world, the long form world, you need to have a lot of funding first because it’s there, there is huge project, big pe or like a lot of people involved.

You need, um, you need to, yeah, you need to negotiate a lot more. Um, you need to. Get people doing more for less because it might be a passion project and you don’t know yet. Will there be any funding at the end? Will that be a successful feature, short film feature at whatever it is that you bring out?

Will you have, will you have that on Netflix and Amazon Prime or will they say, will they look at you and like, ha, you? No, it, it, it, it all depends. Yeah. And you don’t know before that you don’t know. You might have a good story, but there are many good stories out that have become terrible films. 

Steve Cuden: No question.

I don’t think anybody ever sets out to make a terrible film. They just happen that way. No, 

Christian Schu: no. The the, it’s always about we want to achieve something good, but especially when you are not working with the same team again and again and again, but you’re working with different people all the time. It’s not easy.

It’s not easy to, to, uh, yeah, to, to have the, the, the bond, let’s say. Yeah. I mean, there is a reason why in the, in the big feature film world, people like Christopher Nolan, Quentin Tarantino, and they work together with the same editor since the beginning. 

Steve Cuden: Oh, wow. 

Christian Schu: There is a reason for that. Yeah. Because they speak one language.

Steve Cuden: Of course, 

Christian Schu: all of them. 

Steve Cuden: Well, you’ve, Scorsese, Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, Tarran Tuna, they all work with the same people over and over 

Christian Schu: again. Composers, they, they mostly are the same. Han SIMer for Nolan, 

Steve Cuden: Clint Eastwood, it’s, yeah, that’s right. That’s exactly right. Yeah. That’s because there’s a trust that they build up.

Christian Schu: Yes, yes. And that’s when, when, when it’s about, um, me being in the narrative world more when, when we’re talking about feature or featurettes, I try my best to bring in the people I work with. From the commercial advertising world, it doesn’t always work, but mm-hmm. Lucky me. Sometimes it does, and then I’m speaking one language with them and this language is not English or German or whatever it is.

It’s film, 

Steve Cuden: it’s cinema, 

Christian Schu: and they understand it. 

Steve Cuden: Yeah. So when you’re developing a commercial, you’re gonna tell a story of some kind, whether it’s a completely visually told story or whether there’s audio to it, whether there’s dialogue, whatever that might be. Yeah. Do you follow a similar structure to a narrative long form that is to say, are there, is there plotting in it?

Do you need to start in a certain place and go to a certain place and wind up in a certain place? 

Christian Schu: Basically? Yes. A narrative film, a long form film is actually. A lot of short form films together weaved in one story because you are telling you, you are able to tell deeper stories. You’re able to, to, to dive deeper into characters.

You can explain characters. You, you can show their good sides. There are bad sides, there are hesitations, their limitations. You can show all of this while in the commercials you are, you are not diving very deep into a character most of the time. You are, you are. Yeah. You’re using stereotypes that we all have to 

Steve Cuden: mm-hmm.

Christian Schu: Catch that emotion in 20 or 30 seconds, sometimes even 15 seconds. I mean, YouTube nowadays, after four seconds, you can click it away. You need a, you need some kind of hook, uh, that fits to the target group, uh, who is watching it. Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: Is there something that you turn to frequently that elicits that empathy or joy or those other emotions?

Is there some sort of technique you use? 

Christian Schu: In the, in, in which world? Long form or 

Steve Cuden: in either world as well. In the short form world, in the commercial world, it’s really hard. So how do you hook somebody in on emotion within 30 seconds to a minute? 

Christian Schu: Ah, actually that’s, that’s rather easy for me. You, you dive into the action, 

Steve Cuden: you dive into the action.

Christian Schu: You, you, you right, you dive right into a situation that the audience witnesses and yeah. That, that situation must be some kind of appealing to the target group. So it, it, it narrows down again to who is it, what, who is it that is watching this piece of art now? Huh? Um, for example, I, I mean. You mentioned it before.

I have a lot of Hi-Fi brands, high-end brands, it’s luxury high-fi brand talking about, uh, Macintosh Labs from the US for example, building an amplifier for 15,000 bucks. Uh, so it’s considered, and, and you need four or five different appliances to be able to listen to music. So we are talking about people who can afford 40 to 50 grand just for listening to music.

Is, is the five or 10% up, uh, up, up level there. And they like, it’s a very masculine brand. Mm-hmm. It’s, uh, it’s got chrome and black metal all over and the tubes standing out. If you show it to I, I would say 95% ladies, they would be like uhhuh. That’s not nice, huh? 

Steve Cuden: Sure. 

Christian Schu: Um, while the man will be like, Hmm, 

Steve Cuden: yeah, 

Christian Schu: that’s what I like.

That’s a real thing. Uh, how, how many kg 20 kg for Yes. Huh. Like, different target group. And what you can do with this is already you, you put that into a room with a, with two Chesterfield chairs, uh, and a lunch club atmosphere. You sit down two guys, uh, smoking cigars and listen to some music. There you go.

That’s your story. 

Steve Cuden: So you’re heading towards certain stereotypical tropes about people. 

Christian Schu: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: About people in general. 

Christian Schu: Yes. 

Steve Cuden: And you’re appealing to that. That’s how you’re eliciting the emotion. 

Christian Schu: Either you, you, you go that way or you challenge the narrative. You challenge this stereotype that the audience have about that person on screen or that product on screen, or whatever it is.

You can go both ways, but you need to. You either need to go along and have a, have a nice commercial, you know, that appeals to heart and soul, and ha I feel comfortable. Or you have that narrative break that is disrupting, disrupting this, this, this stereotype or this imagination of that situation that changes something, challenges something.

Steve Cuden: Are you still making these things mostly by yourself or do you bring a crew of some kind in? 

Christian Schu: That depends on the budget. I, I have to say that totally depends on the budget. If you have a, if you have a big company like Bang and Olson, uh, a Bow and Wilkins for Carl, name, those kind of brands, we are working with a marketing team on their behalf.

So I also bring people, crew and, uh, we introduced name for Bentley name Audio is a very old British brand that, that has amazing. How to say amazing loudspeaker. Loudspeakers, they don’t do, but together with the, with the same company. Focal name Focal is a French manufacturer. They develop, uh, anything Hi-Fi related and they built in loudspeakers and amplifiers and those kind of things in the bent place.

If you have enough money for that and you want to, uh, you want to spend more money on sound, they will, they will, uh, they will help you for 20 grand to, to put more on it. 

Steve Cuden: Well, if you can, if you can afford a Bentley, you can afford better sound. 

Christian Schu: Absolutely. The question is if you need that, but that’s another topic.

Yeah. Um, if you are not into, into sound, into audio, you, you wouldn’t, most probably, you wouldn’t ask them to build. Yeah, sure, of course. But, but of course, if you are, and yeah, that’s a big thing. So they, they, they have this, this side, they built in their loudspeakers into the car, but also. They manufactured a few things that are called name for Bentley, and then that piece of art, it, it, it is like this, it’s like a bang on Olson device.

It’s standing in your living room. So when it comes to this, when we, when we did that, we, we, we had a crew of few, 12, 12 or 13 people because we needed drone shots, we needed camera cranes. We needed to film the Bentley inside, outside this and that because we needed to transport that image of wealth and power and luxury and freedom onto that little device that you can buy now for a thousand bucks or for 2000 bucks that will stand in your living room.

Yeah. So you, you transferred this one was a rather easy one. You transferred image that is already there and put it among another device, another brand. Yeah. And the people. They bought it, of course, because they are like, oh, with this, with this, I can afford a Bentley for home. 

Steve Cuden: A Bentley for home.

Interesting. Even 

Christian Schu: though I’m not sitting in it and driving it, at least I’m listening to it. There you go. 

Steve Cuden: Do you find, do you find working with a larger crew like that to be burdensome in any way? Or is it cause you to spend more time and energy on things? It would be easier if you could just do it yourself, or is it very efficient and very easy to do?

Christian Schu: The bigger the project, the more tired some it is, the more people involved, the longer it takes, the more, uh, how to say, 

Steve Cuden: because all, all roads are leading through you. Yes. Yeah. So you have to answer everybody’s questions. 

Christian Schu: Depends with larger groups, I don’t, I have a few people that report to me and I tell them what to do and they spread it with the crew.

But yeah, at the end it’s a, it’s always a team, uh, effort and a team. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. 

Christian Schu: You know, of course it’s not easy to work with 20 different minds on, on a set that all have, that all are creative and want to bring in their ideas. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And of course I appreciate ideas, but at the end we also need to decide and deliver.

And somebody needs to be in charge to decide. And even though I love to hear what they say at the end, it’s about me to decide on a narrative we go for and on a story we are telling and on yes. We we need more light here on no, we need, we don’t need more light here. It’s, it’s, it, it needs to be decided.

And a film set is definitely not a democracy. 

Steve Cuden: Oh, definitely not. Do you think of yourself when you’re on that set as. Just the director? No. Or do you think of yourself? I under, no. What do you think of yourself as? 

Christian Schu: I’m everyone and no one, I’m, I’m everywhere and nowhere. That’s me. I need to challenge everything basically.

And I need to understand there are, there, there. Okay. Let me say like this, I believe that there are better directors than I am and I believe there are better gaffers than I am and a lot better, uh, first acs and second acs and whatever it is DOPs than I am. But I will still stand next to them and have a look how it looks like.

And I will say if I don’t like something and I will question it. 

Steve Cuden: Mm-hmm. Well, you’re the ultimate decision maker, aren’t you? 

Christian Schu: Of course. Yeah. It, it, it needs to appeal to me to decide, but of course if I work together with. With people who I worked with for many years. And yeah, I also rely on them and I trust them for what they are doing.

I’m not checking if light number 357 is set up, uh, properly, if they don’t know that, uh, they, they wouldn’t work with me. 

Steve Cuden: Oh, sure. 

Christian Schu: Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: I don’t mean that you’re into every little nook and cranny, but you, you’re over all the departments. Yes. Ultimately, 

Christian Schu: yes. 

Steve Cuden: And how important is it in casting these people now, I’m not talking about the actors, I’m talking about your technical people.

Do you cast them so that they work together in a, in a way that, do you hope works well? 

Christian Schu: Yes. As a straightforward answer yes. But of course with the, the last 10 years, now I have as a, as a reference and as some experience, I know who I need to call for what job. And, and there are people that, that work very well in this kind of like, let’s say I need a outdoor shot with a drone.

I have two or three people on, on, uh, on short dial. Yeah. Then I know who to call. Mm-hmm. Depending on the project, the project size, the budget and all of these things, 

Steve Cuden: you’ve developed a bunch of people that you trust. 

Christian Schu: Yes. 

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s, that’s exactly how it should be. How important in terms of the performers, the talent, how important is casting 

Christian Schu: with talent, actors and actresses?

It is, again, it depends on the story, on the story of the commercial. If the, the question is always okay, do they need to say something? Do they need to be good in facial expression only? Do we need somebody to run? Like an athlete, or do we need somebody to stand still? Do we need a trustworthy face or do we need a evil face?

It’s all about this. Um, so of course the, the, the cast, uh, need to fulfill the, that, that, uh, idea behind the story that, that we have. Two years ago, I’ve been, I’ve been having a, uh, commercial for a local real estate, uh, uh, uh, broker. And, uh, we’ve been using, um, also a guy I know from somewhere else, he’s, uh, quite popular from commercial advertising.

He’s worked for, you know, he’s worked for this bank and for that insurance company and yeah, and, and, and he can be that kind of slimy guy. Yeah. So I casted him as being a very slimy old. Money focused, greedy real estate shark. Yeah. And, and that’s a important thing. He’s willing to do that. Not everyone is happy with that role.

You know, you, you, you need to find people who are like, oh yeah, I like to be the evil guy. Yeah. Um, and he, he’s been that evil guy and, and we had a great time filming that. Um, it, it was like, yeah. He, he, he was, uh, showing around a young girl, uh, into, into a, sorry to say that fucked up apartment. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Uh, that was totally run down and everything. Yeah. Uh, and he was praising it like it would, would be the, the nicest place on earth. Yeah. And it was basically falling apart. Yeah. And the more he was into that situation, the more he was like. Maniac becoming a maniac. A latic. Yeah. Like, ha, see everything is so nice.

Oh, yeah. Like, like this kind of style, what we did, and it was hilarious and he was really good in it, but it, it also took half a day to get him there. 

Steve Cuden: So that was an issue. 

Christian Schu: Yeah. To, to, to make deliver. So it, it is crucial to find the right talent for whatever you’re looking for. And the, and the most difficult thing is you need to rely on either your experience or on other people casting for you or maybe your gut feeling.

I don’t know your intuition, because once you choose that person for set, it’s a contract. It’s not easy to, to tell your client, okay guys, this guy isn’t working. I’m sorry. We need to find another guy and we need to pay more. You need to pay more. Mm-hmm. They’ll be not happy. Mm-hmm. I mean, ultimately they will do it, but they will be not happy.

So the outcome from this must be super, super wow. Then only they will be like, ah, okay. Whatever he, he delivers, you know? 

Steve Cuden: Yeah. Some people will say that the value that you’re going to get is in how you’ve cast a show. Yes. True. ’cause if you cast really well. True, very true. They kind of true take care of a lot of the directorial issues for you.

Hundred 

Christian Schu: percent. Yeah. 

Steve Cuden: I, I think there’s, there is some truth to that. Well, I’ve been having just a fantastic conversation for the last hour with Christian Chu, who’s a Christian, has been a fantastic, uh, director, producer, creator in Germany, in the film world for quite some time now. And we’re gonna wind the show down just a little bit.

And I’m wondering, in all of your experiences, do you think you can think of a story that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat strange, or just plain funny? 

Christian Schu: There were, there were many situations, uh, that I would consider strange. Yeah. Good. Okay. One thing I can tell you, I’ve been, I’ve been, uh, in the UAE many years ago, uh, Dubai.

Mm-hmm. And I’ve been filming, uh, on a yacht. And in Dubai you need a permit for everything, but you don’t get that permit if you don’t spend a lot of money. And the client didn’t have a lot of money, and it was just me doing it. I’ve been doing all of that by myself, solo filmmaker, but we needed that shot of the yacht.

Sure. And the yard was, we’ve been out close to a Bush Arab, which is the, the most luxury hotel in the world. I don’t know if you have heard about it, but it’s a very nice hotel. Have heard of Sure. Close by. Not, not far away. And I’ve been shooting up the drone, starting filming, and suddenly. Was not maneuverable at all anymore.

The drone, and I know, but I didn’t expect it happens to me. I know that they sometimes shoot with kind of like they, they, how to say that? They, uh, in, in English, they distract the signal. So you are losing the signal with your drone because they don’t want you to fly with a drone there. Yeah. Uh, and also the, his, his highness, uh, uh, like area is not so far away.

So all of this, they don’t want you to, to film. Okay. Long story short, that drone was circling over water. I was. Uh, expecting to lose 3000 bucks already. Yeah. Circling and, and making, I mean, I was still having access to it, but I couldn’t move it. It was not maneuverable. I was seeing all of that. You lo you lost control.

You lost complete control of it. I lost control with it and it was not a bad drone. So it’s not about the drone and it’s not about the water for sure. There was some, something, some frequency, uh, that, that they, uh, distracted or jammed or whatever. I received back control one or two meter above the water.

Crazy. I was sweating like hell. I shoot it back up, shoot quickly the scene and land it safe back on the yard and Huh? I was wet, you know, I was really wet and not from the water. I tell you, you 

Steve Cuden: know, there’s always something isn’t there? There’s always some little funny thing that happens. 

Christian Schu: Definitely. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Alright, so last question for you today, Christian. Yeah. You’ve already shared with us an enormous amount of very valuable advice, but I’m wondering if you have a single solid piece of advice or a tip that you like to give to those who are starting out in the business, or maybe they’re in a little bit trying to get to the next level.

Christian Schu: I can share some advice. Definitely. You don’t need a new camera, you need better light. Mm. It’s as simple as that because the cameras nowadays, as long as it films 4K. Okay. Whatever. Uh, especially when you are doing commercial advertising mostly you don’t need a airy or, yeah, not, not that high, high, high, high stuff.

You can work with the Sony range. If you really need something for a project, you can still rent it out. You don’t need to spend 35 grand on a, on a Sony Venice, or even more than that. But for your own personal camera, you don’t need a new one. You just need new lights. 

Steve Cuden: New lights. Yeah. And so that it will look beautiful to the camera because you’ve lit it well.

Christian Schu: It is about lighting. 90% of your visual is about lighting, not about your picture quality. It’s about how you light the front, how you light the back. What does the back tell story? Already without anything happening. Only the the back needs to tell a story already. And if it’s well lit. It tells a story by itself.

Steve Cuden: That’s a very, very interesting, um, comment that you’re making. I’ve never heard anybody say it quite that way. I think that that’s a very useful bit of information that how you set the shot up with light and how it looks in the camera and so on, that’s more important than it be a high end camera. Yeah, I think that’s terrific.

Christian Chu, this has been a fantastic hour plus on StoryBeat today, and I cannot thank you enough for your time, your energy, and your wisdom. I think, uh, the listeners want to check out Christian’s work. You can go to christian-schu.com and find out much more about him. Thank you so much, Christian. I appreciate your time.

Christian Schu: Thank you so much, Steve. It was a pleasure. 

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s StoryBeat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you are listening to. Your support helps us bring more great Storybeat episodes to you.

StoryBeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, tune in and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden. And may all your stories be unforgettable.