Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat…

David Sharp: Continue to do what you’re doing and your destiny will find itself. So that’s what I have to say. Be bold and know that in your boldness has genius and your destiny will find itself. You may find yourself pivoting to something you didn’t think you might end up doing, but that’s the adventure of life.

Announcer: This is story beat with Steve Cuden. A podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment. Here now is your host, Steve Cuden.

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. My guest today, David Sharp, is a writer, performer, and spiritual teacher. Through his business, power for life, now David produces and presents workshops, retreats, videos, music and performances for personal and spiritual growth. David is an ordained Presbyterian minister and has worked as a pastor, university lecturer and seminary professor. As a performer, David has sung, danced, and acted on Broadway, television and film, and has been a talk show host. He’s written for numerous publications and is an award-winning author with four books published, including Annie Ruth’s Truths, Power for Life, I’m a Black Man, Who Are You? And Voicemaster. I’ve read Power for Life and Annie Ruth’s truths and highly recommend David’s excellent writing to you. His books are easy reading pleasures with positive, upbeat messages. He’s also recently finished writing a new musical and is soon to publish an illustrated book of poetry. David and his wife, doctor Janee Good Allen, run in person and virtual retreats called Live your Dreams and have recently completed building the Good and Sharp Studios, a campus for spirituality and the arts in Boulder, Colorado. David is a graduate of the University of Southern California where he was a drama major in the School of Performing Arts. He also earned a master of divinity degree, a master’s in special education, and a doctorate in ministry. For the record, David and I have been friends for a very long time, having met and worked together while we were both drama students at USC. By the way, David and Jeanine have very generously offered a free gift to anyone listening to this podcast. It’s a roadmap to your creativity. To find the link to receive your free gift, please check out David’s episode here@StoryBeat.net. dot so for all those reasons and many more, it’s a truly great joy for me to welcome to StoryBeat today my friend, the exceptionally multitalented doctor David Sharp. David welcome to the show.

David Sharp: Thank you, Steve. It’s great to be here.

Steve Cuden: Oh, it is such a pleasure to see you. We haven’t seen each other in a few years, and it’s great to see you. So let’s go back in your history a little bit. How old were you when the showbiz bug first bit you when you wanted to be a performer?

David Sharp: Well, it’s, it was later. It was probably my senior year of high school. But, you know, when I was in my elementary school days, they picked me to be in plays because I was one of the smart kids. And it’s not that I wanted to, but I remember playing Rumpelstiltskin in the fifth grade. And in the third grade, my mother put me in a speaking contest and I won, doing Rudyard Kipling’s, poem if. And, I actually still have the trophy from the third grade, you know, because I, think there are threads that we can find in our lives that point to where we’re going to go, even way before we see them consciously. So that stuff. I was, the lead in the high school play as a senior, but even then, it was my senior year when I thought, oh, this is where I want to go. Because before that it was physical education and even Spanish. That’s what I put on my SAT testing. But one night, watching the Johnny Carson show, I saw Donnie and Marie Osmond sing. And I have a sister who’s a year older, and we’ve been singing all of our lives. You know, my dad was a pastor, so of course we sang all the time. And it never occurred to me that we could have a career, specifically in show business. I mean, a lot of African American singers come out of the church, but I was an athlete, so I got inspired in that moment. Like, I could actually go into this field. And, my consciousness at the time had, to do with social, justice. My dad worked with Doctor Martin Luther King.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

David Sharp: and I actually went to his funeral when I was twelve years old. Wow. I grew up with these men. Andrew Young wrote my recommendation for seminary. I grew up with these kinds of, leaders and activists, and I wanted to, you know, be an athlete, but I didn’t really grow that much. And that night that I saw them sing, I went, oh, I could do that. I called my sister who had just gotten married. Call her up at midnight, mind you. She answered the phone and I said, you got to look at this. Donnie and Marie Osmond. And we could sing. We could become singers. And I do this and she went, you called me to watch Donnie and Marie, and then she hung up the phone. Inspiration comes from wherever it comes from.

Steve Cuden: So the theater is a. I think of it as a kind of a spiritual place. In a weird way. It’s not unlike some kind of a ministry of sorts. Do you think of the theater as a place where, people learn things and grow from it?

David Sharp: I think that’s where theater came from. It came from a spiritual arena. That’s what I’ve learned and what I’ve studied and read that it came out of. I mean, we know the Greek theater, but it came out of. And that’s why they call it show business, to show people to themselves. That’s what religious, institutions in their best way do. And that’s what show business does when it’s doing its best. They’re so close that there are some people who say to me, oh, you are. You’re a minister and an entertainer. Oh, I get it. And then there are people who say, how can you be a minister and an entertainer? And so there are some people that see their close relationship and others that don’t.

Steve Cuden: Well, the times that I’ve seen preachers really going to town, they are putting on some kind of a performance, even if it’s coming from, you know, some higher place. But it’s definitely out there. It’s not quiet and sedate. It’s really performing.

David Sharp: That is correct. And there’s a really good reason for it. I mean, if, you know, that oratorical form came out of, the expressions, of course, from Africa. But, in american slavery, the slaves were tired. They had been working, and yet they were allowed to gather together on a Sunday. And people were tired. And, people are still tired when they go church. So sometimes, you have to make things more alive. You have to dramatize things. You have to use your voice in very creative ways, or people will fall asleep.

Steve Cuden: Well, it’s just, in a weird way, it’s similar to the opening of act twos of musicals, where you got to drag the audience back in again.

David Sharp: That’s right. Exactly right. So there’s so much, interplay between those two worlds.

Steve Cuden: So who were your, aside from Donnie and Marie, your earliest inspirations in theater, in performing, inspired you?

David Sharp: Yeah, it was my parents. But, you know, you grow up, you don’t realize it. At the time, my dad was a sax player, saxophone player, jazz saxophone player. He became a minister. He didn’t stop playing. He was very creative, and he was. My dad was a comedian. He would we would grow up with his dad jokes. but he was a comedian in his teenage years. the corniest jokes you ever want to hear. And then my mother was an english lay english teacher who was a tap dancer. So we would have family jam sessions, you know, with dad playing the sax. My mother tap dancing, we get, we had tap shoes, and we tried to copy what she did, and we just thought it was fun. We had no idea, I mean, we would watch television, but we had no really, living in Texas and Georgia, we didn’t have the concept of show business as a life we could live.

Steve Cuden: Well, the truth is, there are actually very few people that I speak to in show business who have show business families. Most people come to it some way that’s not from their family or they may be encouraged or even discouraged, but nevertheless, they come to it on their own.

David Sharp: exactly. And the church worlds that I grew up in were very creative, from the singing to, I mean, I was in a spoken word choir as a kid where they lined us up in the steps and we would, we, it would be like, a chorus, you know, in a play. Then we would go back and forth with these poems. And it was part of our training, educationally and oratorically, to get us ready to be presenters. But as kids, we just were told what to do.

Steve Cuden: So you grew up in a creative environment, no doubt. And do you think that part of your creativity is also spirituality?

David Sharp: Well, the two are married in my world because, we learned at a very young age, you create your life. And so when you make a commitment to focus on your spirituality at a young age, what you’re actually learning is to think about how you’re living, think about how you are creating your day to day. So it’s not just art and singing and dancing and painting, it’s how you speak to people. You’re creating, we’re taught you’re the creating heaven or you’re creating hell by you doing what you say in that moment. You’re creating the world, your world. You’re creating your world. So creativity was part and parcel of the spiritual understanding and the cosmology of, how we grew up.

Steve Cuden: So then it’s all of a piece to you that the performing spirituality ministry, creativity, it’s all of a one bubble, I guess you’d call it one piece.

David Sharp: That’s correct. And that’s, I mean, take it to the existential level. We live in the universe. One verse, it’s one song, it’s one, it’s all and so you can break it down, but you’ll kind of always get back to, it’s all one. And that’s why the best teachers of any spiritual tradition on the planet will eventually get to the point of love. It’s all. Love is all there is, or it’s just about oneness. And can’t we all be one? It’s. It’s one. You can break it down. That’s one of the things I love about, what we can do with our. With our free will is we can analyzed to the nth degree, and science teaches us that not atoms weren’t the smallest things. You can get smaller and smaller and smaller, and you can dissect life that way, too. And then you can build it back up to, say, listen, at the end of the day, it’s all about oneness.

Steve Cuden: Oneness. That’s a very good way to think of it. I don’t think I’ve ever thought of it that way. So I’m glad you said that. I’m curious. In your book, power for life, you, actually talked on numerous occasions about patience. How important is patience to being creative?

David Sharp: Man, you have touched on something. I just finished creating my first online class, and it’s on patience. The first sermon my father ever preached, I was six years old, was on patience.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

David Sharp: So there’s that thread. I didn’t even realize it by the time I created this class, but it all makes sense. And, patience, is a skill. I didn’t have it, really, until I had kids, or me.

Steve Cuden: I didn’t have patience at all.

David Sharp: Yeah, and kids will kind of force you to grow. And one of those places is patience, because they don’t understand. You say, do something, and they just do what they do. You just start to develop. This quality understood about patience is that the skill allows. It encompasses listening. It encompasses waiting. It encompasses trusting. It encompasses an amount of faith to wait. We live in a country that wants things now. It’s hard for people to be patient, especially in the time that we live in. And if you don’t get it now, it’s hard to wait for it. But I have learned and found out from my own experience that it’s one of the best qualities to live, because it allows you to watch and observe, take in. You can still respond, but you’re not rushing. You’re not hurried. you’re not being lazy. It’s a quality of being that ushers in peace.

Steve Cuden: Well, it’s very difficult, I think, to have a career in the arts. I, would think you’ll tell me if I’m wrong? Difficult to have a career as a minister if you’re not patiently growing who you are, as opposed to expecting it all to be there the moment you have left school in some way.

David Sharp: Well, there it is. And, you know, of course, show business, especially in the movies, is hurry up and wait. Right?

Steve Cuden: Hurry up and wait.

David Sharp: But coming, out of USC, I knew that I was hitting the ground without any help.

Steve Cuden: that makes two of us. I had no help out in LA.

David Sharp: None. yeah, and I didn’t realize how naive I was, both coming into USC and leaving USC. You have to understand, I never read a book on acting in high school. And, I never was told about acting classes. I just thought, you get up and act. And that’s what I did. So my first day of acting class as a freshman, we were doing these exercises and I was like, exercises? What do you mean, exercises? And then these names, you know, the Method and Stanislavski and all these. And that’s like, my head was like, wait a minute, what’s going on here? I did not know that it was an art form that you could study, read about and practice. I was so naive.

Steve Cuden: So what do you think? We were both there at the same time. I came in a little later. I had been in school for three years prior to transferring into Sc. You’d been there for a while, but what do you think were the most important lessons you learned while in school? What did you take away from there that you’re still using to this day?

David Sharp: Oh, easily. It’s, observing. It’s watching people. In my senior class, I went back to my freshman acting class, which actually, several people did, to go back to the basics. And one of those basics is to learn how to watch. And I still do it. I will be in a grocery store and watch how people walk. And I can feel myself kind of walking like them. I can tell if somebody’s foot is hurting or if somebody had hip surgery or their back is hurting. I watch people’s faces. And one of the exercises we did was private moments when people think no one is looking at them. What do people do? They, you know, they pick their nose or they, you know, their ears or they do some quirky thing that, you know, they do when no one’s watching. I still watch for those things. I watch myself too, but I love watching other people do that. So it builds a vocabulary of human nature, of what we do about human behavior. that’s probably the thing that I got the deepest because it serves me well as a public speaker, as an observer of humanity, putting together sermons, telling people, you know, sharing with people how we can be in the world and how to help us grow. So by specifically pointing out how people can get on your last nerve, what do you do? You move your shoulder, you cock your head. These human behaviors are vocabulary.

Steve Cuden: So the observation that you’ve made all these years as both an actor and as a minister, I assume that the observations help you to formulate what you’re then going to minister to people.

David Sharp: Sure. I mean, you talk about patience. And my, creative process when I’m developing sermon is to sit and wait. You know, it’s like, okay, I’m sitting down, and now I’m writing. No, sorry. you know, to put it bluntly, God wants us to spend time in that space. And then what we call, you know, revelation, is ushered in. It’s like you. You wait for it. It’s not. It’s different from writer’s block, you know, waiting to get. It’s kind of the same, but it’s like you. You spend time studying. So I have this. I have this way of creating a sermon. I read myself full, I think myself clear, and I write myself empty. That’s a creative process that I use to create sermon. It takes about 8 hours, and I sit, and then I. And then at some point in time, there is this really palpable inspiration that comes in. And I know I’m in the creative, the zone, so to speak. To write not what I want to say, but what is calling me to say. You know, I’m just an instrument. So like an actor, we’re instruments.

Steve Cuden: So you alluded a moment ago to listening. That’s part of an observational process, is to listen as well as to see. and I guess to feel and so on. Actors must listen, and that’s an active thing, to listen, as opposed to hearing, which is autonomic. We all, if we have hearing, we all hear without thinking about it. But to listen requires an action. And so I’m wondering how important, as a pastor is listening.

David Sharp: Oh, you know, when people speak, they sometimes are not saying what they really want to say. It’s underneath, and you can hear that subtext. Subtext, see, it’s all there. It’s really all there. So you listen to a person and you see the subtext, and it helps you ask the right question. And so listening, active listening, is expanding your consciousness to hear more than the words. It’s to hear the tone, the melody of the words. It’s to hear the loudness. It’s to hear all those qualities. My other book, you know, how to be a dynamic speaker, captures all of those qualities of the human voice that we listen to. You look at body language also, and then you can begin to minister to the person, meaning meet them where they need to be met. You know, what’s going on, what needs to be addressed.

Steve Cuden: How long did you work at that before you felt like you had a handle on being able to observe someone in a relatively short period of time and figure out what the needs were? It wasn’t immediate, was it?

David Sharp: It was decades. Decades. You know, life is. They say life is short, but I’m glad life is long enough to. I didn’t realize that I was a teacher until I was 40 years old.

Steve Cuden: Well, you alluded to, another thing that I know from teaching for ten years is that one of the arts of teaching is asking the right questions.

David Sharp: Right. And I learned that from watching other teachers, great teachers, teach, and ask questions that elicited a response you would never give, just offering, what’s coming out of you yourself.

Steve Cuden: So let’s talk for a moment about your writing, which I think is outstanding. As mentioned, you’ve published four books with a musical and a book of poetry on the way. It seems to me that everything that I’ve seen of your work, it’s all deeply spiritual in nature, in one way, shape, or form. You’re not writing. You’re not just writing fluff. Your stuff is from the heart, and it’s very deep. Is that why you write, to spread that feeling of spirituality?

David Sharp: I did not know that I was going to be a writer. Maybe the first sign was at six years old. we were traveling from Denver to Dallas, and it was my first experience of racism. We didn’t get served in a restaurant. My parents eventually explained what. What’s happening, and I remember the feeling of coming down. And I was a smart little kid, and I wrote a two line poem, and it was, racism is no fun. And for me, it’s just begun. Oh, wow. I know, right? My first song was at 14 years old, called the world is a rainbow. The world is a rainbow with colors that won’t end. God intended them to be beautiful, but man took things in its own hand. People looked at the colors and thought it made them different, you know, and it went on and on about racism. And I said, I still listen to that song, which no one’s heard. I go, I wrote my first song that was like, why should a kid have to write a song like that? But I think it showed me that my consciousness was way ahead of where I was. That’s why I keep this, third grade trophy about speaking. And that’s what I still am. I’m a speaker and a presenter about life. I teach people about life, and that sounds verbose in a way. And I remember calling my dad one day and say, dad, who are we as ministers to tell people how to live? And he says, david, people need to be told how to live.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s. I think that’s for sure.

David Sharp: And I do too.

Steve Cuden: And the world we’re in today, we need that more and more, don’t we?

David Sharp: We just need inspiration. You know, one of the great, theologians said there’s more good in the world than evil, but not by much. So the good people, quote unquote good, you know, who shine their light. And, you know, we do the same thing in show business. The best movies, you know, I mean, movies touch people. The best movies can touch you in the heart and get you to capitulate or transform something about yourself. And that’s what I love about theater. So you speak also, and that’s why I’m writing.

Steve Cuden: Well, I was going to say, you speak also through your writing, don’t you?

David Sharp: Absolutely. I had a mystical experience at 18 that showed me to be a writer and I ignored it because I wanted to perform. And then when I was 30 years old, I only drowned, right after seminary. And I, survived, literally. I saw myself moving away from my.

Steve Cuden: Body and, oh, my.

David Sharp: I could look back and see myself in the water and I chose to come back. And then I had, an experience that, you know, it’s one of those things, you don’t have to prove it to anyone. You just, that God spoke to me and we talked about my life path and it was very clear. I didn’t have to sing, dance, act, or even preach. I had to write. And so if I gave up everything, it would be writing, because that’s the calling, the deepest calling of my soul. Now, that’s writing. Songs, poems, books, plays, it’s writing. I have this ability to gather life together and put it on a page. A lot of people can do that, but, I’m very conscious of doing it in a way that hopefully expands the consciousness and deepens the soul of people so that they understand that we’re all created beings in a created world and we can get better as an earth.

Steve Cuden: Well, I think that what you produce is outstanding and very, smart and very helpful to people.

David Sharp: Well, that’s it. And being helpful and useful is really the bottom line. And it’s not like I want to write, high intellect stuff. I want to reach sort of the everyday person who wants to be spoken to in, you know, normal language.

Steve Cuden: What do you think writing and then reading do that? Merely speaking cannot.

David Sharp: I’ve heard many speakers speak, and after they speak, you go, but what did they say? So they’re very skilled, in emotion and dramatics. But the content is specious and doesn’t say much to help people. So I’ve always said that I wanted to both have content that was useful and, dare I say, powerful enough for people to think about and just go, oh, I hadn’t thought about that. And also communicated in a way that fits the audience. Because, you know, in some audiences I need to be more intellectual. In some audiences, I need to be more, dramatic and more expression. You have. So you have to know your audience also.

Steve Cuden: Do you gear what you’re doing with an audience based on what you think their needs are? In other words, if an audience maybe isn’t an intellectual audience, but needs something a little more down to earth, are you able to just gear yourself toward that?

David Sharp: Well, there you go. and this is one of the things that I love about the creative process as a writer and a speaker. You write, like I said, you reach yourself full, think yourself clear, write yourself empty. You’re ready. And then on that, you get up there and then it can all just go away because the audience is saying, I need something else. But you’re prepared. That’s the thing. You’re prepared. And so you’re prepared to go off script. You’re prepared to ad lib. So I really enjoy that. Some people are really afraid of that. but I’ve learned to allow yourself the freedom to be, guided in the moment. There’s a level of trust. It comes with experience, and it comes with education, and it comes with practice. And failing many times, by the way.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s how everybody learns and grows, is by failing first. Nobody hits it right out of the park. George Bernard Shaw once said, a man who makes no mistakes makes nothing at all. So there you have it.

David Sharp: There you have it.

Steve Cuden: You have to fail in order to grow, because that’s how you learn.

David Sharp: There it is. And, failing is part of being human, and it’s picking yourself up and learning the lessons. I love that. To grow to the point where you can admit you, know a mistake and approach the person or the situation, whether you need to ask for forgiveness or I’m sorry or I apologize or, you know, can we. Can. Something I can do to make up to you, but, to own that quality, or even when you just disappoint yourself to say, okay, it’s just, I can still move on. And, you know, it goes into patience. I remember many times where I’ve lost my patience before. I developed more patients, and it’s like, okay, so this is why I’m glad life is long enough. I know we can die at any time, but I always say, any of us is, we’re old enough to die, but we’re also old enough to. Young enough to live a lot longer, even now.

Steve Cuden: So even now, speak for yourself. Even though we’re the same age. Do you write every day?

David Sharp: in a manner of speaking. My brain is always observing and thinking. And I keep a recorder by my bed because I wake up in the middle of the night with these ditties or these dreams or these thoughts. and so if I don’t write every day, I’m observing something every day. I’m, processing something. That’s the work that I do with my life. Yes. I know how to take a vacation, and I think about work, and I take breaks during the day. but with the businesses that I have, and the work that we’re doing. So the answer is yes and no. I tend to both have a schedule and not be a slave to writing schedule. The night time tends to be full for me. I think that comes from my days in show business. After a show, you’re wired, you go out, and I still have. The, Night still brings me a lot because in the day, you get interrupted with phone calls and people, but at night, people are asleep. I’m still awake. I’m a night owl. I get a lot of work done.

Steve Cuden: I think what you’re saying about, not when you’re thinking about not writing every day, just because you’re not putting pen to paper or typing on a computer or typewriter or whatever, that doesn’t mean you’re not writing in your head.

David Sharp: Absolutely. And if it comes to paragraphs, I will stop and record something or stop and write a sentence down. and when I haven’t done that, I’ve lost some. Some thoughts that I could still feel in my head.

Steve Cuden: Oh, yeah. No kidding. Yeah, you got to get it down somehow. I mean, a lot of writing teachers will tell students, you need to carry some kind of a recording device with you, whether it’s a pad, a paper, and a pencil, or whether it’s your phone, whatever you’re recording into, you need some kind of recording device with you, or you will lose things over time. So I want to spend a little time talking about this absolutely wonderful little book called Annie Ruth’s truths. First of all, tell the listeners, who is Annie Ruth? And then, why did you decide to write a book about all of these incredible pieces of wisdom?

David Sharp: So this is a process of at least three decades. my mother is an african american woman from the south, literally country, Mississippi. And they have a folk. They have a way of being. It’s a folk wisdom. A lot of people didn’t go past the 6th grade. My mother came off the farm where we were slaves several generations back. They actually took us to the land where the slave owning family a few generations later is still there. So I got this understanding of the culture my mother came from, and there were relatives still living on the land, you know, like after slavery, then sharecropping. And this wisdom, this, I would say uneducated wisdom, but doesn’t mean that people aren’t wise.

Steve Cuden: Oh, I think that your mother has extraordinary common sense, what people used to call horse sense.

David Sharp: Yeah, exactly. And my mother finished high school, didn’t get to go to college, but she’s the smartest one in the family. And it was one day, you know, maybe 30 years ago, and I. My mother came out with something, and I was like, mom, where’d you get that? She goes, I don’t know. It just comes out. And she goes, you know, you grew up. My mother used to say stuff like that, and I said, you know, I’m just going to write this down because that was amazing.

Steve Cuden: And then, this is decades ago.

David Sharp: Yes. And so, you know, I’m off to college, right? And then I would go home, and maybe once my mother would say one of these things, like, well, excuse me, I just gotta write that down. Well, years went by. I collected them. I didn’t know what I was gonna do with them. I just, like, I just got to keep this. I might remember one and say it to somebody at some point. And then, you know, this. This book came out a couple of years ago. And at one point, I. I said, how many of these do I have? And I looked, and there were 82 of them. And then I realized that my mother was 82. I took that as a sign. It’s time to see if anyone’s interested in publishing this. By the time we got the book published, there were 111 of these quips. And I have, explanations of them. Yes. Annie Ruth is my mother, and her truth is why the book is called Annie Ruth’s truths, because they ain’t nothing like mama saying.

Steve Cuden: Did you interview her for the book at all?

David Sharp: Oh, yes. I have recordings of my mother, videotape of my mother talking about the book, which I’ve included, on Facebook, you know, and social media. So, you could probably still find it. But, yeah, my mother is 88 years old now, and, she still comes out with these. I’m still writing, writing things down. I don’t know if there’s going to be enough for a second book, but there’s. There will be enough for revision.

Steve Cuden: How much of what she has said over time do you think has informed who you are?

David Sharp: Oh, lots. I mean, your parents are, you know, for better, for worse. My mother is. I call my mother, she’s a, resurrection woman. She brings people to life, and she does it with her personality and her wit and her precociousness and her southern folk way of speaking into people. And she does it with love. Mind you, it’s tough love, but it’s love nonetheless. And she doesn’t care if you’re the mayor of Atlanta or, you know, whatever your high position is. My mother does not care. She will speak into you and say something, and get you to go, yeah, get off your high horse and, you know, and speak into you. And people love it.

Steve Cuden: Well, she’s comes.

David Sharp: It’s authentic.

Steve Cuden: It just leaps off of the page who she is, her character, who she is clearly jumps off the page right at you. The way that she phrases things and the way that you’ve captured. Did dealing with your mom create any special challenges for you as the author of the book?

David Sharp: I, would say, no. My mother was, you know, I think people want to be. People want to be seen. And once my mother knew I was collecting these, she would offer more. You know, she was more conscious of, my son is collecting these things that I have in me. And so, you know, I’d go back and she says, write that down. You know, she’d say something. I go, mom, write that one down. So my mother’s picture is on the book, and I send her half the royalties because it wouldn’t be a book without her.

Steve Cuden: Do you have a favorite one or more favorite observations in the book?

David Sharp: Oh, man, they come so randomly, but, you know, one of the ones that come right away is, you know, the window is clear on both sides, and it’s you know, it’s like, I see what you’re doing. You think I don’t see what you’re doing? No. The window is clear on both sides. So if somebody says, I see what you’re doing, I see what you’re doing. The window is clear on both sides.

Steve Cuden: All right? So I’m going to throw three or four of them at you that I thought were just fantastic. And you tell m, you tell the listeners what you think they mean, because I’m not sure I know exactly what they mean. Nobody likes a bone but a dog.

David Sharp: People want the meat. You know, people are cheap, skimpy, and they will give you as less as they can. So, you know, when, when you’re working, you know, when you’re, when you’re, offering some food, don’t give the skimpy stuff. Give them meat. Nobody likes a bone but a dog, you know, give me some good stuff. Give me the fat.

Steve Cuden: She says, take the currant while it serves.

David Sharp: So this has to do with, you know, the river that runs through the countryside and, the river, depending on the wind and the water and the seasons. You have current eddies, currents, and, you know, sometimes it flows slow in the summer and faster, you know, when it’s springtime. So you take the current while it serves. Meaning go with the flow while the flow is going, because it ain’t always going to be going the way you want it. Life is up and down. It’s fast and slow, and you better take the current while it serves. So it’s a recognition that in life, it’s a spiritual concept, frankly. It’s recognizing, that life, is not just about us doing things in life. It’s about what happens to us. And it’s about the dance of flowing with life. It’s, you know, call it the zone. You take Gertie’s statement, you know, boldness has genius. So when you do something, you might create the current yourself. You might create your own luck. Go with that luck while it’s serving. Yes. And, recognize it and keep going until it empties out.

Steve Cuden: Is it similar to the more colloquial phrase, make hay while the sun shines? Is it similar?

David Sharp: Sure. It’s the same thing.

Steve Cuden: Same thing. So she also says you’re not so slick that you can’t stand another greasing.

David Sharp: That is one of my all time favorites. It has to do with people who think, that they are slicker than you are. Not that you’re slick. Just like people who, who are slick, and they want to cheat you out of something, or even a politician who’s doing some underhanded things, and they get found out. And so, yeah, the saying is, no, you’re not so slick you can’t use another reason. You ain’t that slick. You know, we see what you. We see what you’re doing, because it’s. The window’s clear on both sides.

Steve Cuden: So she’s very able to combine these various phrases.

David Sharp: Absolutely. And I do that in the book also, I have phrases that go back to other phrases. So you could actually create, a language culture of using these, beautiful folk sayings that feel.

Steve Cuden: So I say to the listeners, this is a very dynamic, short book, very easy to read, very easy to grasp, and I highly urge you to get it, just to add some color into your own life, because these phrases are fantastic. Last one I’ll ask you about is, if you can’t be good, be careful.

David Sharp: Oh, well, so that has to do with sex, you know, and, I think you could go back to may west on that one. Can be good. Be careful. I mean, but my mother was like, yeah, she’s. She speaks into people like, oh, okay. For. Well, if you can’t be good, be careful now. And my mother would point that finger. You know what I’m talking? You know what I’m saying?

Steve Cuden: Well, may west would have said, you know, famously, she said, when I’m good, I’m very good, but when I’m bad, I’m better.

David Sharp: That’s the one. It’s a riff on that.

Steve Cuden: All right, so I want to speak for a little bit about power for life. Tell the listeners what power for life is and what its purpose is.

David Sharp: Powerful. M life is a book of, inspirational guidance for each day of the year. So there are 365. And this came about, as an, exercise that my wife and I were doing in the morning. We would ask a question. God, how would you want me to live into this day? How would you want me to. What would you want me to do or say today? Or, God, how would you guide me today? And then, you know, we would take a moment, and then we would write this question with our right hand and switch the pen to our left hand. The right hand accesses the left brain. The right. The left hand accesses the right brain. If you’re right handed, it’s the other way around if you’re left handed. And what happens is, with the left hand, it releases you from the thinking brain, and you become more intuitive. And my wife noticed that my, answers were coming out like poetry. Hers were coming out like a grocery list. Do this, do that, do that. Mine were coming out more like sentences and prose. And she goes, you need to keep that. And I went, okay. Okay. So I started keeping them. I didn’t know what was going to happen with them, but I kept them. And then my wife, again, she’s brilliant. she made a suggestion that I see how I lived the guidance, and write an evening reflection on how I. How did I do live, living that guidance. So, that’s the book. Power for life. Power for life is a phrase I’ve used for decades. I’ve always liked the term power for life, because somewhere in my psyche, I’ve recognized that I need power for life. Whether it’s power to deal with the racism through that. I’ve had it from the south, leaving the south, or the power I need as a short person to, like, stand tall. I mean, it goes. It goes into all the things that I’ve had, to challenge me and that I’ve dreamt into. I need the power, and the power is the ability to make happen. So I love this phrase, power for life. The ability to make happen the kind of life you want.

Steve Cuden: How important are these meditations for being creative? How important is it for creativity?

David Sharp: It goes back to creating your life or your personhood every day. You really do. And the thing about it is, they help us grow in our personal lives. What I mean by growth is not becoming smarter, but, becoming wiser, becoming m more kind, more patient, having more peace, having more joy, having more goodness. Meaning you do things for people not to get something back, but you do it out of service. Gentleness is a huge quality that I’ve think that I’ve grown into. I’ve recognized it as a really powerful quality to be gentle. and so this book recognizes these qualities, and they help us become, continue to become and grow into the potential of our humanness. And what I’ve noticed is that it, forms an attractiveness. People want to be around you. People respond to you differently. They may not know what’s happening in the moment, but they experience your kindness, your gentleness, your humbleness, your goodness, your, you know, energy. It’s all energy. So the light literally, you know, is through your words. And you can. You can. You can bless people just by saying hi, you know, with a smile. It goes back to what Maya Angelou said, you know, at the end of the day, it’s being able to say.

Steve Cuden: Good morning, you know, at the end of the day to say good morning.

David Sharp: Or in the morning, say good morning to your neighbor.

Steve Cuden: I think it’s fun to say good morning. In the end of the day.

David Sharp: It’s morning somewhere.

Steve Cuden: It’s always morning somewhere. So that book, then, leads you to a lot of what you do now with power for life now with the retreats.

David Sharp: Yes, right, the retreats. with my wife, doctor Janine Goodallen. We met in graduate school. And, this business we have is to help people live into their dreams. We were both, you know, we both got our doctorates in ministry. We’re teaching at a seminary. The seminary closed. We decided, let’s do something where we don’t lose our jobs anymore. We became entrepreneurs. We went to business school, to learn how to put our gifts and, educational skills and talents online, which is what we’re doing. We have live retreats, in person retreats, and we have virtual retreats and workshops. And, so, yes, we. This book leads into what my wife and I both do, which is to help people get past their limitations, their fears, in order to get closer to living the dream that they have deep inside.

Steve Cuden: Are these retreats religious in a sense, or are they more, down to earth?

David Sharp: Yeah, they’re not. They’re not religious. I’m not really a religious person anymore. I’m spiritual. I’ve grown. I’m not saying it served its purpose, but I’ve expanded. I’m not pastoring the church. I’m teaching people about spirit. I teach spirituality. I went to an ecumenical school with Buddhists and Muslims and Wicca and, even atheists. And so I’ve always enjoyed the creativity of all paths and how people perceive life. It’s never. It’s never bothered, me at all. I, think that’s part of why I went into, you know, the creative industries, because when I was in college, I didn’t. I didn’t go to church. I studied zen. I went to the ashrams. I was, what is everybody else doing on this planet? You know? So this business that we’re doing is not, religious. It’s very spiritual, and you can separate it out into the spirit of a person. What’s calling you? You know that word? What’s, what’s your, what’s the yearning in your deep inside of you that you’re afraid to say or afraid to do or think you can’t do? You’re too old or you don’t have the skills or you don’t know where to start? Well, we help people get announced it, own it, and make a plan to help them move that way. And we’ve had some incredible results with the work that we’re doing in it. Yes. It’s part of, you know, you could say ministry, but it’s, it’s just what, where we are both now, it sounds.

Steve Cuden: Like you’re helping people get unstuck.

David Sharp: That’s a great way to say it. And so many people are stuck.

Steve Cuden: Many people are stuck. Yeah.

David Sharp: Yeah. Which is, which goes back to, you know, my father’s wisdom. People need to be told that live. That doesn’t mean, you know, like a cop. It just means, who do you allow to speak into your life? You know, I don’t let everybody, I don’t listen, I don’t take everybody. That’s why you said, take it like a grain of salt. If it works for you, if you think it works for you, take it in. So people who come to us either hear us, hear about us, word of mouth, find us online, or have been to something else we’ve done. And, it’s. I mean, we have people from, from their thirties to people in their seventies who still want to do things and they’re doing them. And that’s. So this will be our third retreat. So our track record is, you know, we’re still young at it, but we don’t plan to retire anytime soon.

Steve Cuden: You’re helping people find inspiration for themselves in their own, in their own lives.

David Sharp: Yes. And we’re actually helping people find power to move forward toward those things that they feel most like they still want, want to do that’s unfulfilled in them.

Steve Cuden: so how much of your training as a performer come into play when you’re conducting a retreat? You’ve learned how to memorize lines and to move gracefully like a dancer, and to speak to people and to perform. How important has that training been to the way that you conduct the retreats?

David Sharp: It’s amazing. Like I said, you know, I think, sometimes our souls are way ahead of our, our human consciousness. So, all my acting classes, for instance. So I have over here on my desk, my dissertation, and inside it is, are all the exercises I learned in acting class. And I, and I knew that there was a spiritual component to them, and so I mined the exercise, and then I created a course in seminary for students called acts of the spirit.

Steve Cuden: Oh, wow. Okay.

David Sharp: And we use these acting exercises to open the heart or a problem that people were bringing. And, you know, in acting class, you have these scenes, you two people get up and create the scenario, and you do the scene until. Until everyone recognizes the moment and they go, okay. Ah.

David Sharp: That was it. What is that? It. It’s the moment. It’s the moment the heart opens. It’s the moment that’s real, that’s authentic, that gets to the core of humanity, whether it’s pain or joy or rage or forgiveness, or some moment that’s past the words, that’s into which we can’t see except to feel with our spirits. And that’s one of the things that came out of my acting classes, is I literally use them in our work now. I use my tap dancing in college, Aldousio was my tap teacher. and I perform with them a lot. We still tap dance. That’s how I met my wife, through tap dancing. And we use tap dancing now in something we call art as meditation. We have 40 pairs of tap shoes. We put people who in tap shoes who’ve never tapped. It’s not about that. It’s about making sounds with your feet. Everyone can stomp. Everyone can walk with tap shoes on. Everyone can jump. So you can make sounds, and everyone can go without knowing what they’re doing. So we’ve discovered an artistic, fun way that’s very transformative and can open up some powerful emotions that people can then go through, and we transform them with, perhaps, lighter taps. So I’m the guide in that. But the point is, I’ve been able to translate tap dancing from. From performance to a, teaching tool. The other thing is, behind me here, in my office, are toys. I collect toys. So I have these, and then I have, more over here. And in these cabinets are toys and books. And that’s the crux of it for me. Toys and books. The intellect and play. That’s the creative formula, for me. And I use these toys in our work. People will come, and I have them pick a toy that speaks to them. And when I discovered this for myself and all these toys in my garage, and I walked in and I went, what am I going to do with all these toys? I didn’t realize.

Steve Cuden: And I heard.

David Sharp: I literally just, like, I heard, use them to teach. And I went, okay, great. I don’t know where that voice came from, but okay. so I pointed to a toy. What does this toy have to say? And I got the message. And so now I use these toys as a teaching tool about what are.

Steve Cuden: People to expect when they come. They’re going to get. They’re going to get up and do activities. It’s not just a lecture and a seminar. You’re actually doing things in the retreats?

David Sharp: Oh, yeah. We think that moving, the body moves your life. So nobody likes to sit in a lecture, you know, these days. And it’s a, it’s an audience participation, very active. That’s why we built the spiritual center, a dance studio, art studio, and a recording studio on our property to build this little campus. And then we’re in the oasis. Now, this is my office. And so it’s, it’s, yes, you’re going to come and you’re going to, you’re going to sing, you’re going to proclaim something. We have a stage where you get up and pronounce your plant, your, your dream to the world. We’re going to take you into our dance studio, we call it the floor, and put you in these shoes and help you, address the limitations. we take you into the art room, we call it the forest, because the ceiling is just beautiful forest, tapestry. And, I call the recording studio the cave. And so all of these tools, and we call this the oasis, because the oasis is that water in the desert. And that’s a lot what is happening here. People come from the desert of their lives, and they get watered by the work that we do.

Steve Cuden: Do you think of yourself in doing this as a storyteller that guides?

David Sharp: Well, I certainly have used, stories to guide. For instance, I think it clicked with me from when I was 15, I was actually here in Colorado visiting my grandmother. I was 15 years old, and I was running around, you know, with all this energy, and my grandmother, it was bothering her that I couldn’t be more still. She said to me, go sit in front of that tree and ask that tree how it can stand still for so long. Now, you see where my mother gets.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, sure.

David Sharp: And I was like, what? She goes, sit there and ask that tree. And so what’s that? That’s the cosmology from Africa that got into my grandmother, you know, from the slave who made it all cross for all the people that survived, for us, for me to be here. And my grandmother has that legacy of that kind of folk wisdom that comes from deep somewhere. And I learned that nature speaks to us, that nature has things to teach us. You can learn from a rock, you can learn from a tree, you can learn from anything. Nature, everything speaks.

Steve Cuden: In developing the various retreats that you do, did you come across any unexpected twists and turns along the way? What surprised you along the way?

David Sharp: Way from the retreats?

Steve Cuden: Yes. In your development of it, as you were being, as you were creating, because we’re talking about creativity and you’re creating the retreats themselves. What, along the way, surprised you that you went, wow, that’s not where we expected this to go.

David Sharp: You know, sometimes, the whole is the sum of the parts are greater than the parts themselves. And I think the first realization was, it works. We don’t have to fool anybody. We’re actually doing, you know, it’s like you’re doing this venture, it’s like, is this going to work? Put people in tap shoes. so that’s a surprise right there. The fact that you create the trusting environment where people try something that’s not comfortable for them, that they’ve never done, and they trust you. And I think I’m m getting goosebumps because that is where change happens. So, once we realize this, put people in tap shoes, because we love to tap dance, but putting people in tap shoes for, art as meditation, to allow meditation to happen with this artistic tool called a tap shoe, was an incredible, beautiful surprise at how powerful it was and how powerfully people changed because of that tool.

Steve Cuden: I think that that’s, truly unique. I’ve never heard of anything quite like what you’re talking about. And it sounds like it would be a lot of fun. How many is it, days to do this? What is it, one day? Four days? How long do they take?

David Sharp: The retreat is four days. And we take a, ah, couple of hours to do this one, exercise where we put people in tap shoes, go through this process, talk about the process, and the group then helps transform the pain into power and to watch it happen, people get outside of themselves and they become more creative and they learn that whether you’re 70, 50, whether you’ve never drawn a picture or danced at all, or whether you’ve never done what’s really calling to you. We have a person in her seventies who wants to be a painter. And she was always told, you know, artists don’t make money. She became a teacher. Now she’s painting and she’s so happy. we have a guy who’s 30. He wants to be a tv writer. He was always told, you know, you can’t make money as a writer, you’re not a writer. And he. But the calling never left. And we gave him this opportunity, with us, and now he’s written a television show that has won several awards all over the country. Of course, he’s now trying to pitch it to HBO. And, you know, all the streaming services. But sometimes people need help. We all need assisted living at times.

Steve Cuden: Even young people need assisted living occasionally.

David Sharp: Exactly.

Steve Cuden: I have to ask you briefly about your Broadway experience. You were in a show on Broadway called ok. And in it with you was Tamara Tooney, who also has been a guest on StoryBeat, and she’s a fantastic, fantastic person. Also in the show is the sublime Brian Stokes Mitchell, who I’ve seen a number of times on stage. I don’t know him personally, but I’ve seen him a number of times. But most importantly, the show was produced by this legendary guy named David Merrick. What was your experience like in the show itself? But more importantly, how was it to work with David Merrick, who’s had all kinds of crazy things said about him over many years?

David Sharp: Yeah, it was a hard thing because they took a 1926 Broadway show that won the Tony Award as best show on Broadway in 1926. Ok. Kay is the name of a woman, ok? And redid it as an african american musical. But David Merrick didn’t let us be black. And what I mean by that is, you know, we would be on stage and, working things out and some, you know, and the director was like, you know, yeah, you guys do something. And then we, something would happen. And I remember the day, you know, one of us went, amen, brother. And, somebody else went, hallelujah. Somebody, you know. And David Merrick was like, it was in the audience. He stopped. He stopped. And he says to the, director, why are they saying amen and hallelujah? What? And we all realized in that moment that he didn’t understand our culture. And we all realized that the show was in trouble. Because if you’re going to create a. Take a white show, make it a black show, make it, let it be, let it breathe. The culture, he thought, put black people in it, and it’s a different show. No. Well, you have to let us be black. The other thing that happened in that show was, the rich people in the show were light skinned and the peons were darker skinned. And we realized there was this color gradation happening in our show. We all recognize, and we thought, oh, my God, it’s so subconscious, you know, he doesn’t even realize what’s happening. And the show did not survive. We ran for a couple of months. He fired the first person, that was hired to be the lead female. He thought she was actually too dark. And, we brought some people who were lighter skinned, and we thought, oh, my God, they’re bringing this person in and then we saw them. We thought, it’s never going to work. This is just a mess. And it was a mess. The show stopped for. We opened. The show stopped for a month. We came back and opened again. I think it’s one of the few shows that stopped. We were for a month, then we stopped and then came back and, ran for another month. And that was it. It was sad.

Steve Cuden: Did anything that happened in that experience stay with you in terms of the way that you’ve performed and acted the rest of your life and career?

David Sharp: Yes. And this is what I mean, you can do things in life, and then things happen to you. That was 1991 or so. Things happen to you. It’s like the first time, my first role as an actor, I was. I was doing a tv show, and I was rope climbing, and I had to do it over and over and over to get the camera shot. And then the director said, okay, so, man, are you tired? I said, yeah, I’m a little bit tired. And then he brought in another actor, and they actually did the shot. And when the show came on tv, it opens with a close up of that actor and going up the rope. That was. That should have been me from that point. I went, oh, my God. You know, you don’t say no, you know, as authorities are, yes, I can do it again. I must have done it ten times or so to get the right shot. So with. Okay, it was a reminder that, yes, you have power. You can do some things, but other people have power too, and other people can do things too. And, you know, these things sometimes collide, and if people don’t get what they want. I’ve, been in other shows like that, too. I’m sure most. Most actors have gone through something.

Steve Cuden: So that’s part of the linkage of your life, that you learn that lesson early, and then more things happen in time that you have learned that you no longer do those things the same way you do them differently or improve on them, or maybe not improve on them and learn more.

David Sharp: Yes. And I think this is the dance of life, at least for me. I was 18 years old, thought I was going to be some one thing. Life pivoted, and I went to seminary four years after college. Because I didn’t like what I saw in the business as far as opportunity and coming from the background I came from with social, justice, I realized, I don’t have to do this. I don’t have to be in this business. I still can act, sing, dance, and take it with me wherever I go. I don’t have to be in Hollywood. So I took it with me to seminary. So I became the tap dancing preacher. You know, I became the preacher who I remember speaking at an occasion for the NAACP in this lecture. I tap danced, I sang, I recited my own poetry, and, every, and then I, of course, the content and the lady stayed afterwards, and she says to me when nobody else, I’m staying here. Because what you did up there, I know, takes a long time, because each one of those things you did, you did well. So how old are you? So I realized that she got it. She got like, the skills of a performer, whether it’s innate or developed. there are some people that recognize, the developed talent.

Steve Cuden: Well, I have been having the most marvelous conversation for a little more than an hour now with my friend David Sharp, and it’s just been a joy to talk to you. We’re going to wind the show down a little bit, and I’m wondering, you’ve been around a long time, you’ve, done a lot of things, and you’ve met a lot of people and had experiences. Do you have an oddball, weird, offbeat, quirky, or just plain funny story that you can share with us?

David Sharp: Absolutely. So, this has to do with my dance background. I was preaching a sermon in my church in San Francisco, and I had my robe on, and I don’t stay behind the pulpit. I go down to the audience, I went down toward the people, and I stepped on the back of my robe, and it pulled me backwards. It literally pulled me down. And in that moment, talk about a creative moment. And at that moment, I was like, and it pulled me down and I was, and then I went into the split, and then, you know, life tries to pull you down, but if you have faith, you can rise back up. And I did, myself, rose back up, and then I went to the splits again and came back up. And of course, the church saw me get pulled down, but they also saw the creativeness to, in the moment, ad lib, or what they call it in comedy, you do, you know, the impromptu, you just, in the moment, you change it up. And I was able to change it up. That’s, that has to do with my creative, I would say the experiences that I’ve had as a, as an actor, as a creative, ah, to improv, and to, in the moment. And we all, I mean, the church hooted and hollered after that happened, because it could have been like, oh, oh, my God, what happened? But no, I kept going and they understood. And I think what they understood was that life does pull you down, but there is a way to pull yourself back up and keep moving. And I think that was more powerful than anything else I said in the sermon.

Steve Cuden: Well, you had the experience of, you know, the show must go on, so you knew you had to keep doing it, and so you just figured out in the moment how to do it.

David Sharp: Yes.

Steve Cuden: I love it. All right, so that’s, wonderful. So, last question for you today, David. David, you’ve given us just all. I mean, a ton of incredible advice along the way, but I’m wondering if you have a solid piece of advice or a tip that you like to give to people who are just starting out, either in show business or in ministry or both. or those maybe that are in a little bit, but trying to get to that next level where you might advise them how to get there.

David Sharp: I do. And it’s be bold. Be bold. And what I mean by that is, you know, here we go with the storytelling. Maya Angelou spoke at the University of Berkeley, and I was in seminary, and I went to hear her speak, and I was so inspired. And she. She had a book signing thing after the. After this, lecture. And I went, and there are 300 people in the room, and I’m standing in line for her to sign the book. And I finally get up, and, I mean, maybe four people in front of me. I get this hint that I should recite one of my poems when I go up to her. And then I got so scared. Oh, my God. No, no, no. I can’t be doing that. And, of course, my heart was beating, and it wouldn’t go away. I got up to Maya Angela. She was sitting behind the desk, and I knelt down, and I went, Maya. And she goes, yes, darling. And it’s this poem from this book. I’m a black man. Who are you? And I said, I’m a man. I’m a black man. She goes, yes, you are. And then I went on to recite a whole next paragraph of the poem right there in the room. She was so impressed, probably, by my boldness, but it did have, of course, this poem. you know, it’s doing a lot of things. She stood up, stopped the room, and said, ladies and gentlemen, I want you to hear this young man. I want you to. I want you to do what you just did for me. And I did it for the whole room.

Steve Cuden: Wow. Yeah.

David Sharp: And after that, I was able to talk to Maya, about my path. And she said, I can’t take your writings, but I can tell you this. Continue to do what you’re doing and your destiny will find itself. So that’s what I have to say. Be bold and know that in your boldness has genius and your destiny will find itself. You may find yourself pivoting to something you didn’t think you might end up doing, but that’s the adventure of life.

Steve Cuden: That is fantastic advice. That’s, that’s just sort of everything. That’s how people actually succeed is by being bold and finding their destiny. David Sharp this has been so much fun for me. I can’t tell you how much I’ve enjoyed this and I’ve learned so much from you today. And I’m just grateful for you spending the time and you’re giving us all of your wisdom and energy, and I appreciate it greatly.

David Sharp: This has been fun, fun, and that’s one of my favorite words. And thank you for the opportunity.

Steve Cuden: And so we’ve come to the end of today’s story beat. If you like this episode, won’t you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating, or review on whatever app or platform you’re listening to? Your support helps us bring more great story beat episodes to you. Story beat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, Tunein, and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden, and may all your stories be unforgettable.